European Union

[miller1098]

Some very valid points there in my opinion Smiffy, my best mate at home is one of many who say that we'll be better off trying to make it work better on the inside looking out, but this seems illogical to me as if it's a true democracy (one country, one vote) how can you change anything to your benefit while you have most if not all members voting against you. It is going to be a one time only chance, it won't come round again so for me it's an out vote . . . . . . . . . .

Tony.

Most voting by the 700 or so MEPs is done on party lines as of now it's mostly liberal democrat the far right ukip a d socialists vote against mostly everything as do the communists,very rearly is it country by country,buddy it's not us an them.Google is you friend .Look guys I would love it if we were all thinking the same but we never will that's ok .but if someone says something ,like I just have,look it up and see if it's true then make your decision.try to get an unbiased opinion not a newspaper some party leaflet or blog or even your mate down the pub.Then no one can blame you for dropping them in the s***

 

[Grumps]

Spot on matey boy, look at how you got treated when you were on the sick? Does not happen over here.
And who is supposed to "uplift the industry" the EU or your Government?

It's a combination Mike. Leaving the gates open allows companies to exploit. The EU for allowing the overkill of movement and the Government for doing sod all to stop it.

 

[hard top]

But we are a small Island and our schools, doctors, hospitals etc etc etc just cannot cope anymore.

And this just cracked me up Grumpy me old mate, how big do you think the Netherlands is compared to the UK?
You get what you pay for, the NHS has become a joke, due to who, the EU? (Hey, that rhymed..)

 

[miller1098]

It's a combination Mike. Leaving the gates open allows companies to exploit. The EU for allowing the overkill of movement and the Government for doing sod all to stop it.

Nothing to do with the eu. I'll say it again Google is your friend

 

[gookah]

Ok Im out

all you who want to stay in, I hope you enjoy all the Turkish families getting the school places that your children's siblings should have got so they are educated at the same school, the place in the queue in front of you for the hip and knee joints, the job that your grandchildren should have got and the wailing towers that the local councils will allow waking you up at 5 am. let alone the more unregistered schools spreading hatred towards the west.

Yes they will pay taxes, but the services here get cut, not increased, and that puts more strain on all of us who have paid in for years.
Do we truly need more car wash outlets in this country with the skill set the majority of eastern europeans have brought?

We should be like America or Australia, if you have a skill we are short of, or a means to support yourself then you get a chance.

Get real people. We managed before without Europe and our fathers fought for this freedom of choice,
at least anyone who votes 'in', I will have the greatest pleasure of cancelling out their vote

 

[miller1098]

Ok Im out

all you who want to stay in, I hope you enjoy all the Turkish families getting the school places that your children's siblings should have got so they are educated at the same school, the place in the queue in front of you for the hip and knee joints, the job that your grandchildren should have got and the wailing towers that the local councils will allow waking you up at 5 am. let alone the more unregistered schools spreading hatred towards the west.

Yes they will pay taxes, but the services here get cut, not increased, and that puts more strain on all of us who have paid in for years.
Do we truly need more car wash outlets in this country with the skill set the majority of eastern europeans have brought?

We should be like America or Australia, if you have a skill we are short of, or a means to support yourself then you get a chance.

Get real people. We managed before without Europe and our fathers fought for this freedom of choice,
at least anyone who votes 'in', I will have the greatest pleasure of cancelling out their vote

Your car skills are brilliant ,but just because you don't like something it doesn't make it the eu's fault ,my dog has a limp stood on a eu thorn I'm out.my grandparents fought for a free Europe a free world together .and you have to admit the world is a totally diffrent place now we don't have an empire any more, get real 50 million Turks swimming the channel to get you job and take over your church,lol.I may be wrong

 

[hard top]

Get real people. We managed before without Europe and our fathers fought for this freedom of choice,
at least anyone who votes 'in', I will have the greatest pleasure of cancelling out their vote

Absolute bullshite gookah, the Yanks bailed us in WW2 and the debts to them were only paid off in the late 90's.
Why do you think the UK joined in with them to go and bomb the crap out of the Middle East?
That is what kicked started all this sh***....

 

[gookah]

not bullshite at all, fathers fought for national freedom whoever you think won the battle. And so did my polish dad before he came here,
The hospitals and schools and housing are overrun by migrants as well as our own generation getting older.

Migrants pay taxes, but where is all this extra new money being spent?
We dont see it, I see people complaining about school placements and lack of houses and hospital waiting times.
Bury you head in the sand. The sh*** from syria and all those other places the UK joined in to bomb was wrong, but it wasnt Turkey, Romania, Poland and all the other Eastern european countries that have free movement in our country that is causing the strain on our systems.
I am out, now at least I dont cancel your vote HT, but I do cancel out Millers leaving the rest of the people here to vote in unison.
No Miller, we wont have wailing towers and 50 million turks swimming here, but then we dont have multiple Mosques in a non muslim country either, or net migration in the 100,000's do we?
I suggest you answer each point rather than using a dogs paw reference

 

[miller1098]

not bullshite at all, fathers fought for national freedom whoever you think won the battle. And so did my polish dad before he came here,
The hospitals and schools and housing are overrun by migrants as well as our own generation getting older.

Migrants pay taxes, but where is all this extra new money being spent?
We dont see it, I see people complaining about school placements and lack of houses and hospital waiting times.
Bury you head in the sand. The sh*** from syria and all those other places the UK joined in to bomb was wrong, but it wasnt Turkey, Romania, Poland and all the other western european countries that have free movement in our country that is causing the strain on our systems.
I am out, now at least I dont cancel your vote HT, but I do cancel out Millers leaving the rest of the people here to vote in unison.
No Miller, we wont have wailing towers and 50 million turks swimming here, but then we dont have multiple Mosques in a non muslim country either, or net migration in the 100,000's do we?
I suggest you answer each point rather than using a dogs paw reference

We will never agree that's ok,but you have no points to answer that have any truth in them ,unless you believe certain party's or press.just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. It's easy to quote figures ,you don't mention more than half immigrants are from outside the EU .its our own government that allows it ,can't you see we're not forced to do it ,why do I have to say this ?if it was the car.everyone would look up the manual,that's all I want find out he truth it takes a bit of effort it's hard to find independent sorces. Can you guess I'm in and I hope the silent majority

 

[Grumps]

Nothing to do with the eu. I'll say it again Google is your friend View attachment 32623

Yep in print but in practice?

 

[smiffy]

like me @miller1098 you live out "on the fringes". In lowestoft there is one very small, discrete mosque. There may not even be one within 10 miles of you. We don't see the effects migration has had in our inner cities. Spend some time in east london, try Walthamstow where my family come from. Try Luton or Bradford

In Newham, London there has been a battle to prevent a mosque 3 times the size of St Pauls cathederal being built.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbey_Mills_Mosque

London now has muslim mayor who's brother-in-law has direct links with ISIS.

And we want an open border with Turkey?

The harsh reality is, you used to be able to walk the streets of these places without interference, now you get spat on.

EU failed to seal our borders, it left Greece to sort out the Turkey migrant route on its own when it wasn't capable of doing so. It wasn't a Greek problem, it was an EU problem.

Should we have gone into the middle east? Yes, to help Kuwait.
Should we tackle terrorism? Yes, but on our turf, or targeted, justified, individuals that pose a genuine threat.

This brings us back to the EU and one area where it fails miserably, and that is National Security, my security.

 

[miller1098]

And your blaming the EU for all the Muslims that want to build a mosque that never came through the eu,no blame for a system by our own government that encourage immigrants to by pass other eu country's ?Ask yourself who is to blame ,or is it easy to lump everything on the eu .or government need for cheap labour

 

[Lee]

From what I've seen and effects me directly I'm an OUT vote. Even though I will likely loose my job if we do leave I think the long term gain (only my opinion) will be better for our once great nation.

Lee

 

[miller1098]

That's fine,I just think we are a great nation probably the greatest nation in the world ,we might not be the strongest ,the hottest or the richest ,but were the fairest,inclusive,generous on the planet we have a voice in the world and others listen.Its a country that a humble truck driver can though his own hard work own his own home own a number of cars put his kids through education get health care for next to nothing and dream of retiring at a reasonable age to a villa in France.Yes we're a great country .i hope we don't f*** it up :/

 

[Grumps]

That's fine,I just think we are a great nation probably the greatest nation in the world ,we might not be the strongest ,the hottest or the richest ,but were the fairest,inclusive,generous on the planet we have a voice in the world and others listen.Its a country that a humble truck driver can though his own hard work own his own home own a number of cars put his kids through education get health care for next to nothing and dream of retiring at a reasonable age to a villa in France.Yes we're a great country .i hope we don't f*** it up :/

You talking about me Hugh Miller lol! Stop trying to soften me up you Welsh tart!!!!

 

[hard top]

Its a country that a humble truck driver can though his own hard work own his own home own a number of cars put his kids through education

He gets his overtime cash in hand in a little brown envelope....

 

[gookah]

And your blaming the EU for all the Muslims that want to build a mosque that never came through the eu,no blame for a system by our own government that encourage immigrants to by pass other eu country's ?Ask yourself who is to blame ,or is it easy to lump everything on the eu .or government need for cheap labour

No we are not, blaming EU for mosques, Stop cherry picking and twisting words for your argument
We are saying that Turkey and any other Islamic countries that join the EU will have the same effect on us where their towers will appear., as it has already happened with Mosques via migrants from Pakistan and India. But you believe it wont.


So my points have no truth in them?
Have we put even more strain on the NHS from the EU migrants yes or no? answer that?
Do we now need more school places for 'European' children, but with the same infrastructure?
Do they rent out houses that contain numerous working adults in them, but pay only one council tax ?
Is there a shortage of houses? but now more people wanting them?

Yes, they pay taxes, but is this used to directly fund the services they use up? I see cutbacks, not extra spend with all this new money?

Not in Wales though, so no wonder it doesn't affect you, but go to Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Telford etc and see the number of people that are there talking new 'European' languages. We have 3 Polish shops here now.
last count 31 mosques in England
1 in Wales
Muslims in England 5% of population
Wales 1%
The 2011 Census recorded 579,121 people born in Poland as resident in England, 18,023 in Wales, 55,231 in Scotland
I would probably feel the same if it didnt affect my area either.

But, as with anything political, it is all pointless (unless Boris gets the PM job)
any 'out' vote will be watered down by a government who still wants to stay in
They will just buy into free movement and trade agreements (which we already pay for anyway) saying that we had to.
Any out result will just be in name and not substance.

 

[Zeti]

And your blaming the EU for all the Muslims that want to build a mosque that never came through the eu,no blame for a system by our own government that encourage immigrants to by pass other eu country's ?Ask yourself who is to blame ,or is it easy to lump everything on the eu .or government need for cheap labour

You have a difficult task and I want to support Hugh's idea regarding government responsibility by giving the Austria example: you know how many immigrants they received? None! You know how many mosques they build? None. You know how hard is to receive Austrian citizen ship? Impossible! You know how can you hire an immigrant? After you had rejected five times an Austrian citizen offered by the Austrian labour office (what ever its name is!) And all rejections should be consistently argumented! So , if a government wants to protect what you want to protect, they can! But look for the profit of the multinationals companies and you'll find the answer! Money is the answer of every question, unfortunately... For money thousands of people leave their homes and families and work for peanuts, destroying your labour market. I have to mention that all factories from former communist market (politically correct East Europe), from Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, were purchased by big Western companies and instead of modernization, shut down and sold to scrap! Leaving as only solution to the workers to immigrate in West and work on peanuts, "stealing" your labour places, but with a huge profit for companies and leaving in high frustration , both : you and the immigrants! A sad situation, but we are pore ants on this elephants world!...

 

[hard top]

Well said Zeti, if things carry on as they are in the UK with this out vote, people will be flocking over to your country for work.
I left the UK in 1979 to move to Europe at the age of 17, with lots of others, as there were no jobs and company apprenticeships were a thing of the past. The Punk era was in full swing, remember 'No Future' by the Sex Pistols? And also a brilliant TV series called Auf Wiedersehen Pet, a British comedy-drama television program about seven British migrant construction workers.

 

[Zeti]

Maybe HT, but in the future they will find here only places in a primitive agriculture! Because they shut down irrigation system and now they pray to God for rain!...
And they cut all the wood, leaving the ground to slide after heavy rains! Despite the campagne initiated by Prince Charles...