New M.O.T.

It has ALWAYS been the case that if you failed the test, your car was unroadworthy, and therefore potentially illegal to drive (depending on the reason for failure). I have two concerns about the new system...

1. Data. The ANPR system will be automatically updated with any vehicles classed a "dangerous". This means that if your car is deemed "dangerous", and is driven from the MOT station to your driveway, you have committed an illegal act that is subject to a £2,500 fine if you are found guilty.

2. "Dangerous". Some things really are dangerous, and some things aren't, but are classed as "dangerous" in a blanket classification.

[tin_foil_hat on]They could catch you making the 2 mile drive to your driveway (fair cop), but they could see your car on your driveway and make you have to explain how it got there.[/tin_foil_hat off]
 
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g8jka said:
I know they need changing, they will be done when I change the front calipers. Did you not see me come round to yours earlier on a push bike with flat tyres, all because I decided to refresh the paint of the front caliper brackets and needed the wire brush :mad: So I have actually made a start.

A garage surely wouldn't be able to keep hold of your car if it fails, it just means now you have no MOT to take it away to do the work or get it done elsewhere. This works in favour of the garage as they are more likely to get the work, whereas before if the current MOT hadn't expired it could technically be taken away and still used. People are more likely to have the work done there and as soon as possible or they are without a car.

If there is any doubt that a car may fail, there is no point in taking it in a couple of weeks early for MOT. If it was to fail then you are left without it, you may as well use it up until the expiry date and take the chance then. Before you could get away with them couple of weeks on the current MOT and have that time to still use the car and shop around for parts or a place to repair.
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And this is where it will be a mess in my option as drivers will be more likely to drive without a test as that is all they're doing. There are may be "dangerous" faults but no one will know because it hasn't been tested.
They will be fined for having no MOT period.

Tony.
 
Pingu said:
@t-tony @Stevo7682 Have you ever had a dangerous failure on a pre-checked car? I suspect that it would be VERY rare, but it is a possibility.
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Well on all fairness it would depend on the time between pre check and test also some of the items called dangerous are hard to accept. Example, a Ford Focus rear spring broken at the bottom end (99% break at the bottom) cannot move or hurt anything is dangerous. It isnt!!. An OSR tailight out is but only at dark.

Tony.
 
@t-tony @Stevo7682 I'm reading the MOT Manual at the moment and have some observations...

Where does it say that welded repairs to wheels are not allowed?
Section 5.2.2 says that "Any fracture or welding defect on a wheel" is a 'dangerous' failure. How can you be expected to assess that the welded repair is defective? If that welded repair is defective, then ALL welded repairs must be assumed to be defective, not just those on wheels.


I'm surprised to see that having no headlights (4.1.1) or wipers (3.4) is only a "major" fail, but having a sticky brake pedal switch is "dangerous" (4.3.2) :banghead:. Is it me:wideyed:?
 
t-tony said:
Well on all fairness it would depend on the time between pre check and test also some of the items called dangerous are hard to accept. Example, a Ford Focus rear spring broken at the bottom end (99% break at the bottom) cannot move or hurt anything is dangerous. It isnt!!. An OSR tailight out is but only at dark.

Tony.
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The reason for the question was that the punter has put their car into garage A, but garage A can't fix it because it is impounded by the MOT station. I assume that it can't even be driven legally on trade plates.

The reality is that neither garage A nor the MOT station want the problem, so something will be sorted out. Sooner or later something will go wrong and someone will be caught driving a "dangerous" car. I just hope that it's not me:wideyed:.
 
Too many unknowns still in my view.

Tony.
 
t-tony said:
I can only agree Dino, I have tested many cars which have passed the emission test while the EML was on. The emission test actually tests what is coming out of the tail pipe. WTF!
Anyway chaps, don't forget we have the EU to thank for all of this BS not the DVSA.
I remember @FRANKIE saying that where he lives they only check that the EML has not been on in the the previous 2? years, they don't even test what comes out of the tailpipe. The emission test is therefore carried out by the code reader.

Tony.
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Tony what you are saying is not exactly correct. All they actually do at the Department of Motor Vehicle in the state of New Jersey is to test the emissions by using the code reader. If something's wrong with our car we have a check engine light that goes on. If you go to the inspection station to get your car inspected and your check engine light is on they will fail you. If your check engine light is not on they will hook up the code reader to your car and since there are no errors or codes being given they pass the car. This is all they check for. They don't check anything else such as tires, lights nothing. They don't check your brakes or your shocks but they used to do this at one time. Now it cost too much money and there are too many cars to do this and they can't really have enough people to check all these cars during an inspection month. My wife's Isuzu Rodeo has a check engine light that's on all the time. Oddly enough it goes off for a short time after we have filled the gas tank full of gas. The amount of time that it goes off is only for about 20 or 30 miles. The inspection sticker last for 2 years. We were due for a new inspection sticker this month. I had my wife fill her gas tank and ask her to keep an eye on the check engine light. The light went off this morning so I ran it up to the inspection station and they plugged in the code reader and no codes were shown as the check engine light was off. And so they gave me a new inspection sticker for another 2 years. I know you guys in the UK would probably want a system like this because you don't have to sweat what they're going to find on your car. It's a double-edged sword though. They may pick up things inspecting your car that are very important. I don't think I would inspect the car as closely as they do. So there's always the chance that something may go wrong that I'm not aware of. I sometimes get some work done on the car that may be too difficult for me and the local garage will do a check that I might not do and inform me of problems that I don't often see. Of course if something is wrong with the car usually the code reader will throw a code and let me know there's a problem. So perhaps I like this system better as I pretty much will know if something's wrong with the car without worrying about passing the tests that you have to pass..................Frankie
 
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I suspect that little has changed. Fewer traffic police out there to catch anyone never mind those who’ve had an MoT failure ten minutes earlier. Sure, someone will be unlucky and get caught, but the police have too much to do already.
 
Pingu said:
I assume that it can't even be driven legally on trade plates.
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You assume correctly, trade plates are just a Road fund licence that a trader can put on a car they are driving for motor trade purposes only.

In no way do they give exemption for no MOT even if many dealers think they do.
 
.... sitting waiting on my daily driver MOT test results ......
 
Using a car without a valid MOT is £100 fixed penalty fine but no points. Just saying!:whistle:
 
Redline said:
I suspect that little has changed. Fewer traffic police out there to catch anyone never mind those who’ve had an MoT failure ten minutes earlier. Sure, someone will be unlucky and get caught, but the police have too much to do already
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Hence my reference to "data". It's not just police cars that have ANPR;).

Ianmc said:
Using a car without a valid MOT is £100 fixed penalty fine but no points. Just saying!:whistle:
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That's for "major" failures, or allowing your MOT to expire.

Driving a "dangerous" car can be £2,500 and carries 3 penalty points. I have had MOT failures in the past that would now be rated "dangerous" (sticking brake pedal switch and a seized load-sensing valve are just two). Scary to think that such "dangerous" vehicles are on our roads:rolleyes:. I'm sure that if the police stop a car with a valid MOT and sticking brake light switch, they will just say "get it fixed in 10 days". Now, if you drive the same car home from the MOT station, you are risking a big fine and points.


I hope that @Redline is right and that they don't use "data" as a cash cow. After all, they never have done that before, have they?

I'll be pi$$ed off if they don't fail welded wheels as I've just bought a set of MV1s for my E46 on eBay:cool:. Off to collect them this afternoon. Complete set for £150 (including tyres) - what could possibly go wrong:wideyed:?
 
Regarding the many comments about 'dodgy' MOT garages simply finding faults to get business, I found the system in Spain for their equivalent test (ITV) avoids that issue as all vehicles have to be tested at Government ITV testing stations. These are not private garages, simply State run test stations. That's all they do so it makes no difference to them whether a vehicle passes or not. Needless to say, if they had the same new law there that would create the same problem of moving a failed car.
Clearly the issue here has a lot of mileage and I suspect that it simply hasn't been thought through properly. Perhaps some amendment will need to be made to differentiate between a vehicle that can be driven up to a given distance in order for the problems to be corrected, and one that is simply too dangerous to be allowed to go back on the road. Of course I realize that common sense has merely a fleeting acquaintance with the Law, but hey ho !
 
Direct from the guidelines: https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/after-the-test


Failing the MOT
Your vehicle will fail if the test result lists ‘dangerous’ or ‘major’ problems with your vehicle. You might not be allowed to drive until you fix the problems.

You might also get a list of ‘minor’ or ‘advisory’ problems to monitor or fix in the future.

If your vehicle fails the MOT:

You can appeal the result if you think it’s wrong.

Driving a vehicle that’s failed
You can take your vehicle away if:

  • your current MOT certificate is still valid
  • no ‘dangerous’ problems were listed in the MOT
Otherwise, you’ll need to get it repaired before you can drive.

If you can take your vehicle away, it must still meet the minimum standards of roadworthiness at all times.






and finally:

You can be fined up to £2,500, be banned from driving and get 3 penalty points for driving a vehicle that has failed its MOT because of a ‘dangerous’ problem.

or:

Ianmc said:
Using a car without a valid MOT is £100 fixed penalty fine but no points
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hmmmmm....
 
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Got a pass on the Fiar 500X with a tyre inflation light on when it was tested. Here's how it went, I decided to tell the MOT inspector the light was on and the tyres all checked with correct pressures. He said let's do the test and get the tyre engineer to check all wheels which he did and couldn't find a fault so then checked the computer settings for tyre inflation info and found that I hadn't re-set properly, warning light off and no charge, took him a good fifteen minutes and interrupted his other work, tester stated it was good for future testing in case they came across similar fault. Shook hands with all involved (about six garage staff) and went home with big smile on my ugly face. Used this garage for the last 18yrs so IMO loyalty has paid off. 10% discount thrown in on the test also. No advisories on paperwork. They also stated that they couldn't stop a customer driving a car away with dangerous fault but would implore that it could end up fatal for someone, they also stated that they would give details of good towing company so it could be fixed at home, enabling customer to weigh up garage estimate verses cost saving getting it towed if any. Makes good business sense to me.
It's such a shame this garage staff are all on notice from owner who's selling land for redevelopment. Such is life,
find a good garage and its owner doesn't want to carry on even though it's made good money for years. He's obviously been offered a fortune for the sale and is near or past retirement age.

Rha,Roy.
 
gookah said:
wonder if some garages will offer a 'Pre-MOT' check for the same price as an MOT. If it passes it's logged as a pass, if it fails its not recorded, but allowed to be fixed at home ready for the real test

That's a question I will ask..
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To test a vehicle it has to be logged onto the MOT testing scheme before starting the test after all pre test checks have been carried out.
If you do a "Pre MOT" check where no faults were found, you can't then just say it was a proper test and issue a certificate.

Tony.

ps. In the old days of hand written certificate this was possible but not since computerisation was introduced.
 
gookah said:
Direct from the guidelines: https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/after-the-test


Failing the MOT
Your vehicle will fail if the test result lists ‘dangerous’ or ‘major’ problems with your vehicle. You might not be allowed to drive until you fix the problems.

You might also get a list of ‘minor’ or ‘advisory’ problems to monitor or fix in the future.

If your vehicle fails the MOT:

You can appeal the result if you think it’s wrong.

Driving a vehicle that’s failed
You can take your vehicle away if:

  • your current MOT certificate is still valid
  • no ‘dangerous’ problems were listed in the MOT
Otherwise, you’ll need to get it repaired before you can drive.

If you can take your vehicle away, it must still meet the minimum standards of roadworthiness at all times.






and finally:

You can be fined up to £2,500, be banned from driving and get 3 penalty points for driving a vehicle that has failed its MOT because of a ‘dangerous’ problem.

or:




hmmmmm....
Click to expand...
That’s really useful. There is some latitude.
 
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