strong strut now fitted

[z3cade]

I think Taffzee has a very good point. And in some ways it's what's WS is getting at.. It's just the nature of the car Wayne.

Maybe up rated shocks, springs and arbs will improve handling and this tilt feeling but ultimately the car still has these characteristics that we may not be able to improve. We just have to drive them as they are and adapt our driving to the car maybe?

Either way they are fabulous cars to drive and for the money I wouldn't want anything else..

 

[The wizzards sleeve]

Either way they are fabulous cars to drive and I wouldn't want anything else..

apart from a 12 cylinder M power

M F1

 

[TaffZee]

Its not the car that maketh the driver, its the driver that maketh the car..

What a pair of nutters :-o

 

[Jonttt]

These cars do not fall into the drivers car catagory imho.

My definition of a drivers catagory includes the following cars:

Porsche 911

Lotus Elise

subaru

etc.

The z3, z3m cars have certain flaws when it comes to handling.

This was corrected by the introduction of the z4, z4m.

I think they have to be accepted as what they are.

A fun, rare enjoyable machine.

And not taken too seriously

WS

Have you ever actaully driven any of the above cars in on track / fast road runs ???? Have you driven a Z4m ???? (nothing against them but to me they are simply boring compared to the Z3m as a drivers car)

I've owned 5 scoobies and driven various cars that would generally be classed as super cars (and not just borrowed for an hour), the Z3m is the most fun car I've driven but for very different reasons than pure handling ability. There are plenty of cars that handle better than a Z3m, a scooby is an awesome car on the twisties and its almost impossible to drift on a B road but in a stright line there are plenty of cars that can out drag it pretty easily (including the Z3m). However, it would blow a Z3m away on a fast road run but the Z3m driver would have had much more fun doing it. Its not even worth me comparing to an F430 etc... as the pure results are more than obvious but that does not mean the Z3m is not a drivers car.

The Z3m is simply one of those rare cars that is greater than the sum of its parts.

To state a Z3m is not a driver cars just tells me two things:

1) your driving experience of "drivers cars" is limited
2) you have never driven a Z3m properly

Sorry to go off topic again but the statement was just plain stupid in my book (from whoever has to hide behind second forum name to make it :-q )

On topic, there is a list of tried and tested enhancements which can be made to improve the handling of the Z3m without ruining its character (the easiest being fitting the stiffer S54 suspension) but don't forget that any car which has done 60k plus would feel better even with a new OEM suspension fitted.

I've done most of the recognised mods to mine and with uprated brake pads and am more than chuffed with how it handles, its not perfect but thats what I want, its predictable and because its not perfect fun! and thats what I want - a true drivers car - I'll get into the GTR if I want fast but then again there is always something faster but not necessarily more of a drivers car

just your opinion



most people havent had the chance, or finances to drive the varied amount of cars you have.

you have been in a fortunate position to do that.

Believe me I do appreciate that I'm in a fortunate position of being able to drive a varied amount of cars but it was by design in that it was one of the main reasons I left one of the largest companies in the world to work for one guy ie the perks of the job that a PLC could not offer me.

I was simply trying to point out that your statement that a Z3m is not a drivers car was in my opinion incorrect and ill informed. I could have based that opinion simply on my (pretty in depth) knowledge of more everyday cars such as imprezza's, S2000, 300ZX's, GTR, etc... cars which I have owned and drivern extensively over 20 years which are all considered drivers cars (can you spot a jap theme there)

 

[Jonttt]

John quick question have you ever come across the tilt as i call it?

In short yes I know exactly what you mean.

I have no science to offer but only my own experience and thoughts.

My first Z3m was on original OEM suspension and had done 80k miles. It drive fantastically but the suspension was the weak link. I'm convinced this was a combination of it being tired and the OEM S50 suspension being too soft. It was uprated stiffer for the coupe's and the S54's used the coupe suspension.

My current Z3m came fitted with stiffer AC Schnitzer suspension. This is great for a second car but the ride is very harsh as an everyday driver. Depsite this I was still not happy with the vagueness of the cornering setup and so I fitted H&R anti roll bars. (it already had the strong strut fitted). These made a massive difference and the car was much more settled and "point and shoot" in the bends. The combination of stiffer suspension and stiffer anti roll bars has eliminated the "tilt" that I think you are refering to. The improvement was such that the better balanced car really exposed the braking deficiencies which turned out to be down to the OEM pads (uprated to EBC yellowstuff). Its not perfect compared to a more modern sports car but it is predictable and stable in a way that is just fun. I can get the tail to wiggle, traction control going crazy but never in an uncontrolled way. At my ability levels and on public roads I'm happy that the car is better than my driving an thats good enough for me. Before the ARB's and in my old S50 I always felt I could push the car more than it was capable of and thats not the case now (its me that chickens out first lol).

Now I have a car that although not setup as an everyday driver is so much more composed and settled on a fast road run. The only "upgrade" I'm planning on doing is to fit the splints to the OEM bushes to make them solid but I'm not sure how much of an improvement these could now make.

I'm not suggesting you need to go for too stiff a suspension but I definately think a stiffer suspension and uprated ARB's will eliminate what you are referring to but you can do it in controlled stages, bushes, suspension, ARB's and then you will need those uprated pads ;-)

 

[swamper]

ok chaps thanks for the replies
i really take the point that at 60k the M could benefit from new shocks as these a properly the originals and replace them with S54 if they are a straight fit?
i think the thing to look at here is first is the splints cheap and cheer full plus the reason is if theres movement in there then thats going to be my first port of call and see if i can still feel that lateral movement.
followed with lowering using Eibach (iv felt these in action and are spot on )and suspension S54 if its easy enough.....then on to the H&R anti roll bars.
like pete has said it could just be a case of lowering it which stops the rear quarter moving around so much

some have said its just the characteristics of the car and to some degree i agree...however if theres a way to stop the car from being unsettled mid corner then it needs to be found...any sudden movement from the back while pushing on cant be good.

i want to be like that... I I ....and not that .... / /......(sorry but thats the only way i can describe how it feels when it tilts)
keep the comments coming chaps

 

[The wizzards sleeve]

jonttt

regarding the z3m not being a drivers car.

i didnt word my reponse correctly.

it is a drivers car as in, rear wheel drive, no driver aids, hairy in wet and dry when pushed e.t.c.

but it isnt setup to drive as quickly on b roads as the cars i mentioned above.

mark

 

[Snoops]

jonttt

regarding the z3m not being a drivers car.

i didnt word my reponse correctly.

it is a drivers car as in, rear wheel drive, no driver aids, hairy in wet and dry when pushed e.t.c.

but it isnt setup to drive as quickly on b roads as the cars i mentioned above.

mark

Now you've signed the WS entry with "Mark" you may as well give up the sleeve

 

[Jonttt]

Lol

 

[swamper]

well i thought i'd just dig this up

today i have removed both rear calipers so i can fit new ones, one keeps sticking and it would make sense to do the other at the same time...HOWEVER!
when i removed the rear wheel...staring at me right in the face was the ARB with no drop link attached ....it just looks like it has popped off.....and what it bi*** to get back on....but it looks in good nick...so on it went...got to wait a couple of days now for the rear brakes to arrive....and see how she feels now

 

[badman gee]

how much are they?

 

[swamper]

60 each +vat

 

[Jonttt]

I think it's pretty common for the rear drop links to pop off. I bet they have been off for years lol

 

[swamper]

didn't know that John.....it seems a very strange thing that there is no stop on the end....its going to bug my now and i'll have to keep checking it.. :-\

I wonder what it feels like with it on...cant drive it yet the brakes haven't arrived....
also how much of a difference do they make considering they are fairly soft (as iv read from the coupe lads)..?

i had a life once...............now iv got 2 cars to fix for the rest of it )

 

[Boysie]

What you need is a Butt Strut.According to Mike whose car has a full compliment of Strong Strut products for the Z3, the Butt Strut makes the largest single improvement by a mile.

im going to have one made

Hi Wayne
looking at the butt strut from strong strut it can be easily copied
i would be interested in the cost, always fancied one on the ///M
They say thats whats missing on the ///M
just watch out for high sleeping policemen

 

[swamper]

yep thats what i thought Ray.......theres nowt to them