strong strut now fitted

[swamper]

Swamper I know exactly what you mean and both my M's did this, even after h&r coilies which did reduce it somewhat, the butt strut does seem to have tightened things up back there but I have every intention of upgrading to h&r arbs, poly bush and possibly get the strong strut body brace. I love our cars and their character but the chassis is in need of some rigidity

at last... so im not alone on this... maybe its just some of the cars but they do have a tilt.
shanty keep us update on the mods please.......

 

[z3cade]

Ive heard the fraise skuttle shake before.. maybe the same thing?
Due to it being a soft top it will have flex in the chassis no matter what you do to it..

I dont remember noticing this in my 2.8 or my M but maybe i dont drive it as hard as you swamper

 

[swamper]

Ive heard the fraise skuttle shake before.. maybe the same thing?
Due to it being a soft top it will have flex in the chassis no matter what you do to it..

I dont remember noticing this in my 2.8 or my M but maybe i dont drive it as hard as you swamper

skuttle shake is very different and is to do with the front end....maybe the tilt is highlighted by driving style... you do have to push it quite hard but its their

 

[The wizzards sleeve]

These cars do not fall into the drivers car catagory imho.

My definition of a drivers catagory includes the following cars:

Porsche 911

Lotus Elise

subaru

etc.

The z3, z3m cars have certain flaws when it comes to handling.

This was corrected by the introduction of the z4, z4m.

I think they have to be accepted as what they are.

A fun, rare enjoyable machine.

And not taken too seriously

WS

 

[swamper]

you forgot to add "but part of the fun is improving them "

 

[HornelZ3M]

Not another flipping wizard :rain( As you are a wizard you should be up on your Spell-ingThe z3m has flaws, not floors and it doesnt anyway B-)

 

[The wizzards sleeve]

corrected

 

[peteslag]

These cars do not fall into the drivers car catagory imho.

My definition of a drivers catagory includes the following cars:

Porsche 911

Lotus Elise

subaru

etc.

The z3, z3m cars have certain flaws when it comes to handling.

This was corrected by the introduction of the z4, z4m.

I think they have to be accepted as what they are.

A fun, rare enjoyable machine.

And not taken too seriously

WS

Another Z3 doomsayer, BOO HISS!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The wizzards sleeve]

These cars do not fall into the drivers car catagory imho.

My definition of a drivers catagory includes the following cars:

Porsche 911

Lotus Elise

subaru

etc.

The z3, z3m cars have certain flaws when it comes to handling.

This was corrected by the introduction of the z4, z4m.

I think they have to be accepted as what they are.

A fun, rare enjoyable machine.

And not taken too seriously

WS

Another Z3 doomsayer, BOO HISS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love em, for what they are.

 

[swamper]

this was turning in to a nice little thread about the handling characteristics of the Zed...lets try and get it back on track or is this going to be another thread ruined ?

 

[peteslag]

Sorry Swamps, you are right. :ymblushing:

I had very similar issues when I first bought my 3.0. The front end was quite vague and the back end felt like it belonged to another car, it was all over the place. At first I thought it was to do with the rigidity of the car but soon sussed out it was the rear suspension rolling more when compared to the front. I started to think about braces/polybushes/uprated ARB's etc and decided to try lowering by 30mm and just see how it worked out. Lowering the car sharpened up the front end and drasticaly reduced the roll rate of rear suspension.

It feels much more Lotus and less "raging bull on an ice rink" these days.

 

[Frank.A]

Handling problems are always likely when you ask too much of an outdated chassis design,and 320bhp is asking too much by all accounts. :-^

Stick to a 2.8 for more economical and enjoyable motoring.

 

[swamper]

Handling problems are always likely when you ask too much of an outdated chassis design,and 320bhp is asking too much by all accounts. :-^

Stick to a 2.8 for more economical and enjoyable motoring.

Frank it seems the the M's are right on the limit when it comes to the power and the chassis handling it....but its there and we have to live with it/mod it....but i have to agree that at times it seems to be asking to much of it....also i dont have a 2.8....but maybe i could lose a coil pack and reduce the BHP )

Sorry Swamps, you are right. :ymblushing:

I had very similar issues when I first bought my 3.0. The front end was quite vague and the back end felt like it belonged to another car, it was all over the place. At first I thought it was to do with the rigidity of the car but soon sussed out it was the rear suspension rolling more when compared to the front. I started to think about braces/polybushes/uprated ARB's etc and decided to try lowering by 30mm and just see how it worked out. Lowering the car sharpened up the front end and drasticaly reduced the roll rate of rear suspension.

It feels much more Lotus and less "raging bull on an ice rink" these days.

having been in yours Pete the change is very dramatic compared to the normal set up and well worth doing if its going to be pushed....i wonder if just be doing this mod it minimizes the chassis flex when put under pressure

 

[peteslag]

Sorry Swamps, you are right. :ymblushing:

I had very similar issues when I first bought my 3.0. The front end was quite vague and the back end felt like it belonged to another car, it was all over the place. At first I thought it was to do with the rigidity of the car but soon sussed out it was the rear suspension rolling more when compared to the front. I started to think about braces/polybushes/uprated ARB's etc and decided to try lowering by 30mm and just see how it worked out. Lowering the car sharpened up the front end and drasticaly reduced the roll rate of rear suspension.

It feels much more Lotus and less "raging bull on an ice rink" these days.

having been in yours Pete the change is very dramatic compared to the normal set up and well worth doing if its going to be pushed....i wonder if just be doing this mod it minimizes the chassis flex when put under pressure

Possibly, I don't experience any sort of flex. The front and rear of my car now both roll at the exact same rate at all times, very reassuring when on the raggedy edge. :-bd

 

[HornelZ3M]

Never had a problem with scuttle on my M, great tyres and a front strut brace seems to do a great job, even the mechanic test driving the car commented on it.

 

[swamper]

didnt have a problem on the M with scuttle shake and the strut has just sharpened the handling up.. but did with the 1.9 with cheap tyres on... even the strut fitted to that cant eliminate it completely..... for me scuttle shake has been mainly down to the tyres on it...when i changed them to conti's it was gone

 

[Jonttt]

These cars do not fall into the drivers car catagory imho.

My definition of a drivers catagory includes the following cars:

Porsche 911

Lotus Elise

subaru

etc.

The z3, z3m cars have certain flaws when it comes to handling.

This was corrected by the introduction of the z4, z4m.

I think they have to be accepted as what they are.

A fun, rare enjoyable machine.

And not taken too seriously

WS

Have you ever actaully driven any of the above cars in on track / fast road runs ???? Have you driven a Z4m ???? (nothing against them but to me they are simply boring compared to the Z3m as a drivers car)

I've owned 5 scoobies and driven various cars that would generally be classed as super cars (and not just borrowed for an hour), the Z3m is the most fun car I've driven but for very different reasons than pure handling ability. There are plenty of cars that handle better than a Z3m, a scooby is an awesome car on the twisties and its almost impossible to drift on a B road but in a stright line there are plenty of cars that can out drag it pretty easily (including the Z3m). However, it would blow a Z3m away on a fast road run but the Z3m driver would have had much more fun doing it. Its not even worth me comparing to an F430 etc... as the pure results are more than obvious but that does not mean the Z3m is not a drivers car.

The Z3m is simply one of those rare cars that is greater than the sum of its parts.

To state a Z3m is not a driver cars just tells me two things:

1) your driving experience of "drivers cars" is limited
2) you have never driven a Z3m properly

Sorry to go off topic again but the statement was just plain stupid in my book (from whoever has to hide behind second forum name to make it :-q )

On topic, there is a list of tried and tested enhancements which can be made to improve the handling of the Z3m without ruining its character (the easiest being fitting the stiffer S54 suspension) but don't forget that any car which has done 60k plus would feel better even with a new OEM suspension fitted.

I've done most of the recognised mods to mine and with uprated brake pads and am more than chuffed with how it handles, its not perfect but thats what I want, its predictable and because its not perfect fun! and thats what I want - a true drivers car - I'll get into the GTR if I want fast but then again there is always something faster but not necessarily more of a drivers car

 

[swamper]

John quick question have you ever come across the tilt as i call it?

 

[The wizzards sleeve]

These cars do not fall into the drivers car catagory imho.

My definition of a drivers catagory includes the following cars:

Porsche 911

Lotus Elise

subaru

etc.

The z3, z3m cars have certain flaws when it comes to handling.

This was corrected by the introduction of the z4, z4m.

I think they have to be accepted as what they are.

A fun, rare enjoyable machine.

And not taken too seriously

WS

Have you ever actaully driven any of the above cars in on track / fast road runs ???? Have you driven a Z4m ???? (nothing against them but to me they are simply boring compared to the Z3m as a drivers car)

I've owned 5 scoobies and driven various cars that would generally be classed as super cars (and not just borrowed for an hour), the Z3m is the most fun car I've driven but for very different reasons than pure handling ability. There are plenty of cars that handle better than a Z3m, a scooby is an awesome car on the twisties and its almost impossible to drift on a B road but in a stright line there are plenty of cars that can out drag it pretty easily (including the Z3m). However, it would blow a Z3m away on a fast road run but the Z3m driver would have had much more fun doing it. Its not even worth me comparing to an F430 etc... as the pure results are more than obvious but that does not mean the Z3m is not a drivers car.

The Z3m is simply one of those rare cars that is greater than the sum of its parts.

To state a Z3m is not a driver cars just tells me two things:

1) your driving experience of "drivers cars" is limited
2) you have never driven a Z3m properly

Sorry to go off topic again but the statement was just plain stupid in my book (from whoever has to hide behind second forum name to make it :-q )

On topic, there is a list of tried and tested enhancements which can be made to improve the handling of the Z3m without ruining its character (the easiest being fitting the stiffer S54 suspension) but don't forget that any car which has done 60k plus would feel better even with a new OEM suspension fitted.

I've done most of the recognised mods to mine and with uprated brake pads and am more than chuffed with how it handles, its not perfect but thats what I want, its predictable and because its not perfect fun! and thats what I want - a true drivers car - I'll get into the GTR if I want fast but then again there is always something faster but not necessarily more of a drivers car

just your opinion



most people havent had the chance, or finances to drive the varied amount of cars you have.

you have been in a fortunate position to do that.

 

[TaffZee]

Frank do you still get the "tilt" when going round the corners....(when you push it in to the corner you feel the suspension go down then a definite tilt from the rear) ?

Nature of the beast Wayne, think about whats happening, inertia+power= an decrease and increase of weight transfer, which will unbalance the car.

As you know I came from a 1.9 to a 2.8 and had to really change the way I drove the 2.8. I used to drive into the corner with the 1.9, now I have to plan the corner, and it took me some time to get the confidence (still frights me sometimes though) Remember going through the pyrenees last year, I seem remember you commenting on the rear of my car being low! when going up through a certain series of bends..

You can stiffen the suspension but this spoils the ride.. IMO its all about balancing the car before hitting the corner, rather than throwing it into the corner and hoping for the best.

Maybe a case of replacing the stock springs before anything else?

Why is it that one of the last things people do is replace the stock springs? braces, bushes, suspension kits all come first.