M52tu B28 to M54 330i manifold swap.why

Sean d

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don't understand all these problems your having?
mine bolted straight on my M52TU with no modifications.
My only issue was that I was originally supplied with the wrong TB adaptor plate. the first one had no o ring groove, and the holes were out of line. one I had the correct one it was straightforward...



Did you do the upgrade to your M52tub 20, if so did you do a write up, would be interested to hear of the results.
 
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Rha

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don't understand all these problems your having?
mine bolted straight on my M52TU with no modifications.
My only issue was that I was originally supplied with the wrong TB adaptor plate. the first one had no o ring groove, and the holes were out of line. one I had the correct one it was straightforward...



Hi gookah it seems we used differant adapter plates plus we may have differant TBs.
IMG_0911.JPG


The problems as I said in previous posts were only small and normally I wouldnt have mentioned them, was really for anyone out there that was contemplating this work, just hints really, hope it didn't sound like they were in any way major drawbacks which wasn't my intention. Looked for ages on the net for any good info on this swap but couldn't find anything that made this work seem really worth while and within my capability 6yrs ago, more like yes it can be done but no concrete evidence as to the drawbacks or otherwise, I was thinking that the tu owners just didn't think it worked. So glad you've done this mod and glad that I've got to this point in my swap, does lead me to believe that the first 2.8TUs differences were not that well known so many bought the 2.5 mani which won't work and that led to owners thinking there's wasn't any manifolds that would fit, thank goodness for the few that got on with it and found a way, now you've bone yours could you give me any hints as to what to expect before and after the re-map.

Rha, Roy.
 

Rha

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Hi again @gookah, looking at the angle of your adapter plate TB threaded holes, can you confirm how many bolts are actually securing the TB to that plate, it looks to me that your TB might be secured with 2 bolts (unless your TB is differant) using that adapter which may have altered the angle in respect to my adapter, just for your info mine bolts up with four.

Rha, Roy.
 

Rha

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Update on the manifold swap.
Found the coolant temp sensor conector just sitting on the plug, obviosly never pushed it home.( think it was when my daughter brought me round a cuppa,that's my story and I'm sticking to it;),enough said) well the car started after a few cranks, took it out for 34mile run and found that there's no real torque under 4000rpm although by the time I got back it was getting very slightly better and found that it had come down to 3800rpm.
First few miles found it difficult to overtake even in second,feels like it's getting way too much air untill 4000rpm then it just takes off reaching the red line so much quicker and easier. I don't mean to sound dissapointed so early on but the cars so differant to drive, hope it gets better and hope I can recover some of the low down torque with a re-map. More miles in the next few days then book it in for a remap. Still waiting for @gookah to get back to me.
Rha,Roy.
 

Antm72

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I found my remap added low end grunt to the car whilst the top end revs free and pulls all gears.
The thing i found with the conversion on my M52 to the M50 was the car improved as it adapted to the new parameters.
You may find it improves for a while the more you drive it. The airflow meter should be sensing the new air movement maybe tweeking your little black box may help as it may now be really over compensating ?
 

Rha

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Black box is unplugged @Antm72 Ant, so maybe the computer is trying to sort what it thinks is a bigger problem to handle all at once. Anyway it's a bit of a beast at 4000rpm in 2-3-4, and the noise is astounding. With gentle and steady pressure on the loud peddle it's progress is still a bit nondescript then at 4000 floor it and she goes real well, but it's no good flooring it in any gear under 4thou even in first from start off it just has to wait for the revs to pick up. Computer just can't cope at the moment. Dare I say boring drive, lost its get up and go. Might be useful on a track but for road you'd have a hard job trying to keep it on song.
Roy.
 

Antm72

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Doesn't disconnecting the battery awhile reset things ?
I found the M50 conversion to allow it pull well it elongated the gears in a sense im sure it will pull striaght but as said my remap added the power down low with its torque uplift. Now its all done im sure its the way to go i think it will tie it all together im sure.
Glad the temp was an easy fix :thumbsup:
 

Rha

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I'll try the battery truckAnt, but it was still disconnected when I unplugged the the little box befor I tried to start it for the first time. Maybe after a few more miles I'll plug it back in see if it helps. Poor old comp must wonder what's going on.
Temp fix really was a cinch thank god, guage never moved off normal all the way round, but it does crank a few more times befor it starts I've noticed.
Roy.
 

NZ00Z3

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You will need a scanner to clear the adaptations. The battery disconnect on a BMW to clear them is false Interweb focklaw.

Even without clearing the adaptions, a tank or two of fuel used on mainly town driving will settle down the <4000 rpm fuel trims.
 
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gookah

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Hi Roy.

sorry have been away with work
I too noticed a reduction at lower revs but nowhere near as much as you are describing. 4000 rpm onwards is much quicker as you say. which for overtaking is right where I want it, as I drop a cog and it launches.

I knocked 1/2 second off my time at santa pod just by doing this, and there is no way this top end is accounting for a loss as you describe. Car is certainly not boring and I havent had a remap either, I did go into INPA and re do the adaptation though.

the remap apparently gives back the deficit at lower revs and even increases further the upper end.
Car should be giving out over 200hp now so that should certainly not be boring.

MY TB looks the same as yours and I have all 4 bolts fitted, but I was wrong, I did have to do a modification to the TB as below to clear the idle control valve.








Disa valve is a lot bigger on the new manifold. Purpose of the valve is to breathe more air at higher revs, could this be your "breathing too much air" problem at low revs if it is not working/stuck open (or not plugged in :whistle:)
 
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Rha

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Hi Roy.

sorry have been away with work
I too noticed a reduction at lower revs but nowhere near as much as you are describing. 4000 rpm onwards is much quicker as you say. which for overtaking is right where I want it, as I drop a cog and it launches.

I knocked 1/2 second off my time at santa pod just by doing this, and there is no way this top end is accounting for a loss as you describe. Car is certainly not boring and I havent had a remap either, I did go into INPA and re do the adaptation though.

the remap apparently gives back the deficit at lower revs and even increases further the upper end.
Car should be giving out over 200hp now so that should certainly not be boring.

MY TB looks the same as yours and I have all 4 bolts fitted, but I was wrong, I did have to do a modification to the TB as below to clear the idle control valve.








Disa valve is a lot bigger on the new manifold. Purpose of the valve is to breathe more air at higher revs, could this be your "breathing too much air" problem at low revs if it is not working/stuck open (or not plugged in :whistle:)
Hi gookah, thanks for getting back to me, been back to my lockup today and tested the Disa and although it seems ok I'm of the opinion that's where the problem is likely to be, it's old, used and if not closing would like you say account for the almost total loss of instant torque in the lower rev range. I'm at this moment looking for a new one on the net, may purchase from Germany as some on net are from China and can't afford to put a sub standard replacement on. Been reading up on what and how the DISA works and was astounded at what it actually does and how it does it, worth a read if your not sure what/how it works, most think in layman terms that it shortens/lengthens the air path but in fact it does a lot more than just that, very very clever piece of German engineering, but if it goes wrong can cause havoc with the performance.:bored:

Roy.:happy:
 

Brian H

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Hi gookah, thanks for getting back to me, been back to my lockup today and tested the Disa and although it seems ok I'm of the opinion that's where the problem is likely to be, it's old, used and if not closing would like you say account for the almost total loss of instant torque in the lower rev range. I'm at this moment looking for a new one on the net, may purchase from Germany as some on net are from China and can't afford to put a sub standard replacement on. Been reading up on what and how the DISA works and was astounded at what it actually does and how it does it, worth a read if your not sure what/how it works, most think in layman terms that it shortens/lengthens the air path but in fact it does a lot more than just that, very very clever piece of German engineering, but if it goes wrong can cause havoc with the performance.:bored:

Roy.:happy:
Roy, there are Disa repair kits available which include a new style pin to hold the flap, I did this update to my Disa valve as a preventive measure, IIRC the kit was bought off eBay. I'll have a look for a link if you wish?
 
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Rha

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Thanks Brian, but I'm thinking it's not the mechanics of the valve that's at fault and to test it properly you have to be adle to induce vacuum whilst feeding 12v plus drop off at the same time, then the vacuum keeps it closed whilst the revs build so opening again, to me it's like a second TB that's cuts in/out diverting incomming and the unused air as computer reads the need, it's a lot more complex than I first believed. Anyhow thank you for the heads up on the kit, was going to use it on this old DISA and now thinking if I and gookah are right it may turn out it would have been to no avail. Looked at it today trying to figure out if Ican somehow put it back in permanently closed to see if the torque returns to normal but it would mean butchering it and risking something comming off in the process so was a no no.
Roy.:happy:
 

Rha

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New DISA valve arrived and fitted today, 6 mile test drive and the low end torque under 4000rpm has returned, so relieved it was the DISA valve. This 2.8tu has now been transformed in the upper rev band from 3000rpm onwards while I now believe it's driving feels not much differant under 3000rpm before the new manifold, however it has a slight hesitation at 1700-1900rpm which I'm sure will be getting better as the miles increase and vehicle computer tries to adapt. Can't wait to take it out tomorrow and put some miles on it. :thumbsup: Next step will be to try and find a BBTB to add maybe a little more responce, then altimately a set of reprofiled cams. This is certainly got me excited at what can be done to the 2.8tu. Re-map still on the cards so we can work out just where the gains have been made.
Two lessons I have leaned doing this swap.
1. Check the connections twice of all pipes and wires that can't be accessed after it's all back together.
2. Don't trust a used DISA valve.

RHa, Roy.
 

t-tony

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That sounds more like it Roy, and good advice too mate. Now, put a brick under the throttle pedal and behave yourself.;)

Tony.
 

Rha

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bet it's not boring now....:whistle:
Not boreing any more gookah was a great drive for 123mls but now it's decided to be a pain and in the butt, hard to start, stalling then going like the clappers for a day then next day back to hard to start running badly. Me thinking it's something I've done but then the scanner tells me my inlet cam senser has gone bad, so today ordered a new one and it'll get fitted W/E hopefully. All in a days work when you own an ageing Z3. Fingers crossed its not the start of all the old bits playing up.:(.....................should have bought a new Z4.:facepalm: @t-tony. =))

Roy.:whistle:
 
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t-tony

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Inlet cam sensors can do funny things Roy, even make you buy a Z4;)

Tony.
 
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