I agree don't want to be losing a wheel, it's pretty scary watching it spin on down the road into traffic. I know, been there!! JIM
BMW Z3 Wheel spacers
- Thread starter Grumps
- Start date
Not going of topic at all here JIm, more like sideways from your post, but the most shocking thing that ever happened to me was having a toughened windscreen shatter at speed and come through into my face. That gets your attention pretty quick.
Tony.
Tony.
When in my youth, I used to be a railway child. Served my time in Glasgow Works.
I did a stint on NDT work, specifically securing methods and when electroplated or even chrome vanadium style bolts and nuts were used, as long as the contact surfaces are rubbed down and coated with rust prevention chemical they will perform as good as standard. Appreciate its a laborious task however mines are done already so they'll be fitted at the weekend if not sooner.
Can you elaborate please on what to use and how to use it exactly?
I'm looking at these spacers and the discussion re the electroplating of the bolts have me wondering if I should source the bolts elsewhere. However if they can be treated easily enough then it's a good deal...
That would be frightening Tony, not being able to see anything in front of you.
My experience happened on a trip to Missouri to visit my relatives. As I was driving down an almost abandoned interstate my LF wheel came off and my truck hit the pavement landing on the disc. The wheel traveled a quarter mile down the road going between two cars going in different directions turned left between two cars into the ditch on the left, ran about 400 ft where it hit a driveway and launched into the air sailing over the hydro lines and landing in a farmers crop about half a mile from where it came off. The farmers wife was outside and ran to get her husband who before coming to my aid called a tow truck from the town about ten miles away. Then he headed into the field in his pickup with me guiding him as I could see the wheel in the field. By the time he'd picked it up the tow truck was there. Luckily I found the automatic wheel hub undamaged as it was a four wheeler. Turned out the tow truck came from a small Ford dealership and had all parts but the brake backing plate in stock and within two hours from start to finish were back on the road. I was so worried the wheel would hit an oncoming car but luck was on my side that day as no one was injured not even baby Trinity, 2 months old snug in her car seat. JIM
My experience happened on a trip to Missouri to visit my relatives. As I was driving down an almost abandoned interstate my LF wheel came off and my truck hit the pavement landing on the disc. The wheel traveled a quarter mile down the road going between two cars going in different directions turned left between two cars into the ditch on the left, ran about 400 ft where it hit a driveway and launched into the air sailing over the hydro lines and landing in a farmers crop about half a mile from where it came off. The farmers wife was outside and ran to get her husband who before coming to my aid called a tow truck from the town about ten miles away. Then he headed into the field in his pickup with me guiding him as I could see the wheel in the field. By the time he'd picked it up the tow truck was there. Luckily I found the automatic wheel hub undamaged as it was a four wheeler. Turned out the tow truck came from a small Ford dealership and had all parts but the brake backing plate in stock and within two hours from start to finish were back on the road. I was so worried the wheel would hit an oncoming car but luck was on my side that day as no one was injured not even baby Trinity, 2 months old snug in her car seat. JIM
The worst part really Jim was I didn't realise truly what had happened and when I got back to work the General Managers wife, Jean worked in the office next to her husband Brian and I waltzed in to own up about the screen smashing and un be known to me my face was a mask of blood through many tiny cuts from the glass. Poor Jean nearly fainted.
Tony.
Tony.
Must have been a scene out of a horror movie, luckily didn't take out an eye or two! Can't imagine what was going through your mind. JIM
Back in those days I used to wear glasses mate so it was like driving with goggles on.
Thankfully nowadays they're all laminated, what a good idea that was.
Tony.
Thankfully nowadays they're all laminated, what a good idea that was.Tony.
Hi Dino, I've simply clamped the bolts in a vice and gave the threads and chamfer a going over with a wire brush, then dipped the bolts in rust sealer.
Despite what I've done, I've also got a C200 Merc with 4 spacers on, electroplated bolts fitted, for over 2 years, after a few miles attempted to re-tighten and they didn't require it.
All that said, wire brush them/don't wire brush them, as long as you re-check them as the guys have said, all will be fine.
No Tony, Sunday all being well.Looking good boys, they will look almost as good as mine.
Tony.
ps. As @zedonist says check them for a few miles. The data system we use at work quotes 110- 130 nm, so after fitting mine I tighten to the upper figure of 130 nm.
Z
zedonist
Guest
This won't prevent the heads popping off, as the issue will already be present if it exists and cannot be removed. The issue I am referring to is Hydrogen Embrittlement, it is an issue caused by the plating process which uses Acid and produces molecular Hydrogen, which diffuses into the steel, unfortunately on high tensile steels the metal cannot accommodate another molecule and cracks form at the grain boundaries, (it's like trying to put a 16th red ball in the triangle). You can heat the parts after plating to remove the hydrogen, but if not done soon after plating then you cannot guarantee the parts hydrogen free. The first you will notice the issue if there is either a missing head after a day or so or the head pops off as you torque it up. Best to avoid using them altogether, and use an organically coated bolt, I used H&R spacers, and their bolts are not electro plated.
I personally would not play the lottery with something that holds the wheels on, but if you check the torque frequently over a couple of months, if they have not failed they probably won't, but who knows...
Well that shut me up !
In my usual gungho manner, I will be the testdummy and crack on with them, no pun intended.
If the worst happens, my younger, higher division wife will get 10 times my salary. First come first served gents.
Z
zedonist
Guest
Seriously though if they don't break on application or shortly after you will be ok.
Bet your wife is gutted now
Bet your wife is gutted now
@zedonist
Just had a look at the H&R and see there are two types once you get to 20mm and over - the second type being the one that bolts to the hub first and the wheel to the spacer.
Is that what you have?
It looks like the spacer is bolted using the existing holes in the hub.
Then the wheel is just bolted to the spacer only?
Is that really sufficient ie just 20mm or less of the bolt how (I don't know how far the bolts usually go into the hub anyway).
Just had a look at the H&R and see there are two types once you get to 20mm and over - the second type being the one that bolts to the hub first and the wheel to the spacer.
Is that what you have?
It looks like the spacer is bolted using the existing holes in the hub.
Then the wheel is just bolted to the spacer only?
Is that really sufficient ie just 20mm or less of the bolt how (I don't know how far the bolts usually go into the hub anyway).
Not giving me much comfort as 'shortly thereafter' still implies a disaster of sorts involving wheels flying off, skating on the discs and worse!Seriously though if they don't break on application or shortly after you will be ok.
Bet your wife is gutted now
Z
zedonist
Guest
Exactly Dino, which is why I would not fit them, in the last twenty years I have dealt with at least one quality concern a year due to this issue, but never on wheel bolts as they are not generally plated through this process. I have read a lot of posts on the T5 forum though of missing heads after fitting after market wheels with new bolts, each time they were electroplated aftermarket ones.
Z
zedonist
Guest
Yes those are the ones I have, the bolts into the hub are full bolt length, they just have a half size head height which is fine, you then use your normal wheel bolts.
8 full turns is generally the accepted length of protrusion. Ahem.
Z
zedonist
Guest
1.5 - 2 x dia is the usual rule of thumb for thread engagement, don't forget there are different types of thread pitches, from metric coarse and fine to UNF and UNC plus others such as acme.
You can normally tell how much engagement you have from the removal pattern on the coating of the bolt, if its less than 1.5 x diameter of the bolt get longer bolts.
couple of pictures for you, first one is bolt failure through hydrogen, note it is at the head and the fracture face is flat i.e. a brittle fracture. the second one shows how a bolt is designed to fail, in the threads and has a cup and cone fracture face i.e. a ductile fracture.
You can normally tell how much engagement you have from the removal pattern on the coating of the bolt, if its less than 1.5 x diameter of the bolt get longer bolts.
couple of pictures for you, first one is bolt failure through hydrogen, note it is at the head and the fracture face is flat i.e. a brittle fracture. the second one shows how a bolt is designed to fail, in the threads and has a cup and cone fracture face i.e. a ductile fracture.
Ok ok, let's all calm down
As I said, I'll be the guinea pig. I've checked all the sellers on eBay of these spacers that we had mentioned in this thread and the other one from last week, and some of the bolts supplied would have common finishes surely.
There would be negative feedback if any bolts fractured for sure and there isn't any negative feedback relating to this. Not the best method of gauging their quality of course. If the bolts are suspect, one possibly two may fail, all 5 wouldn't at the same time.
As I said, I'll be the guinea pig. I've checked all the sellers on eBay of these spacers that we had mentioned in this thread and the other one from last week, and some of the bolts supplied would have common finishes surely.
There would be negative feedback if any bolts fractured for sure and there isn't any negative feedback relating to this. Not the best method of gauging their quality of course. If the bolts are suspect, one possibly two may fail, all 5 wouldn't at the same time.