Nicely put Gail. Good shout.
Do we seriously think that the EU will simply roll over and say "OK" if we vote leave?
There seem to be a lot of rose tinted spectacles being worn.
- the EU will be heavily incentivised to dissuade any other nations from leaving. So it will drag its feet on a trade deal and impose onerous conditions before we get one. Eg. Free movement of EU labour within UK borders, pay for membership of a free trade organisation. All the things we think we will get away from.
- UK businesses wanting to sell goods and services overseas will still need to adhere to EU standards and laws.
- the European Union was initially set up as a way of making a third world war (started in Europe) an impossibility & largely it has succeeded. In my opinion it has subsequently been hijacked to try and form a united States of Europe. But I think that has largely been discredited now. I sense there is a rising movement within Europe for reform of the EU & we and it shouldn't stop with the meagre concessions Cameron got.
- this country has falling unemployment, more people in work and yes the fastest growing economy in the so called developed nations. And all this whilst immigration is rising. That is no coincidence. Yes the immigration puts strains on our infrastructure but it doesn't make immigration bad. It just means we should adequately fund the infrastructure. That actually means putting up taxes, particularly corporation taxes which are the lowest in the G20 rather than cutting costs elsewhere.
- more wars are started by extreme protectionist attitudes than almost anything else. We should be under no illusions as to the magnitude of this decision.
We are an island but actually we are a hugely wealthy nation. 5th wealthiest in GDP I believe. And isn't it a little ironic that we can sit in our comfy rooms, with freedom of speech, thought and expression, on a BMW Z forum of all things and bemoan how rubbish things are and how the grass would be greener on the other side?
There seem to be a lot of rose tinted spectacles being worn.
- the EU will be heavily incentivised to dissuade any other nations from leaving. So it will drag its feet on a trade deal and impose onerous conditions before we get one. Eg. Free movement of EU labour within UK borders, pay for membership of a free trade organisation. All the things we think we will get away from.
- UK businesses wanting to sell goods and services overseas will still need to adhere to EU standards and laws.
- the European Union was initially set up as a way of making a third world war (started in Europe) an impossibility & largely it has succeeded. In my opinion it has subsequently been hijacked to try and form a united States of Europe. But I think that has largely been discredited now. I sense there is a rising movement within Europe for reform of the EU & we and it shouldn't stop with the meagre concessions Cameron got.
- this country has falling unemployment, more people in work and yes the fastest growing economy in the so called developed nations. And all this whilst immigration is rising. That is no coincidence. Yes the immigration puts strains on our infrastructure but it doesn't make immigration bad. It just means we should adequately fund the infrastructure. That actually means putting up taxes, particularly corporation taxes which are the lowest in the G20 rather than cutting costs elsewhere.
- more wars are started by extreme protectionist attitudes than almost anything else. We should be under no illusions as to the magnitude of this decision.
We are an island but actually we are a hugely wealthy nation. 5th wealthiest in GDP I believe. And isn't it a little ironic that we can sit in our comfy rooms, with freedom of speech, thought and expression, on a BMW Z forum of all things and bemoan how rubbish things are and how the grass would be greener on the other side?
Mongrel, you would be ethnically cleansed if I had may way..I was born in England, have Irish blood on my old man's side, Scottish blood on my old dear's side and was born on the Patron St. of Wales Day, St. David and I think everybody is great
Oh,oh. Ducks for cover.Mongrel, you would be ethnically cleansed if I had may way..
Tony.
Me too. And the Mrs has one green eye and one blue eye and she and both my girls are left handed! That's burning at the stake materialMongrel, you would be ethnically cleansed if I had may way..
None taken mate, I get worse abuse from my offspring .......... dailyOh,oh. Ducks for cover.
Tony.
Nicely put @Chrisb4684 - I've not waded into this discussion because of feelings it generates.
Those wishing to leave due to poorly informed propaganda (created by the well off and politically motivated press) and single issue reasons worry me greatly. This is a hugely complex issue.
Yes - the EU express train needs reform. Getting off it now will not stop it nor will it stop the benifits it creates for those that remain- without any replacement transport (policies, agreements etc) but the need to develop further we will be left behind. It will also put us back in the situation where conflict, be it economic, social or even military conflict is potentially possible.
We will become isolated - no say in what goes on (why would anyone listen to us) no condition for becoming Great again. The world is now too complex for the UK to keep its place at the top of the world economic, social and military order on its own.
I see nothing but a wish list on the benifits of leaving. How's it going to be done? Facts please!
Also, let's not forget that our crowded island will not be any less crowded afterwards. When all the Europeans have left because they're unable to stay after freedom of movement has been removed, there will be 6m uk citizens returning to the UK - and they won't be happy.
As a nation - until I see reasoned arguments, strategies, tactics etc to manage the consequences of leaving (not just the grass is greener) it seems that we're better off inside the EU despite its ills and from there driving reform than being outside with no say what so ever but still dominated by our near neighbours.
Big industry - the car industry, will simply up sticks and move. Purely from a financial aspect they have to. They owe it to their shareholders - they are obligated to do so. Millions of direct and indirect jobs at risk. To move the £345m per week to the NHS we have to create that wealth - every month. Where will it come from when (even some of) the wealth creators have left our shores.
Please vote to leave if that's what you think is best, but do so understanding the consequences. We will be much the poorer for many years while the rest of Europe continues to grow despite the issues the the EU faces.
The EU may not be perfect but is the alternative really any better?
Those wishing to leave due to poorly informed propaganda (created by the well off and politically motivated press) and single issue reasons worry me greatly. This is a hugely complex issue.
Yes - the EU express train needs reform. Getting off it now will not stop it nor will it stop the benifits it creates for those that remain- without any replacement transport (policies, agreements etc) but the need to develop further we will be left behind. It will also put us back in the situation where conflict, be it economic, social or even military conflict is potentially possible.
We will become isolated - no say in what goes on (why would anyone listen to us) no condition for becoming Great again. The world is now too complex for the UK to keep its place at the top of the world economic, social and military order on its own.
I see nothing but a wish list on the benifits of leaving. How's it going to be done? Facts please!
Also, let's not forget that our crowded island will not be any less crowded afterwards. When all the Europeans have left because they're unable to stay after freedom of movement has been removed, there will be 6m uk citizens returning to the UK - and they won't be happy.
As a nation - until I see reasoned arguments, strategies, tactics etc to manage the consequences of leaving (not just the grass is greener) it seems that we're better off inside the EU despite its ills and from there driving reform than being outside with no say what so ever but still dominated by our near neighbours.
Big industry - the car industry, will simply up sticks and move. Purely from a financial aspect they have to. They owe it to their shareholders - they are obligated to do so. Millions of direct and indirect jobs at risk. To move the £345m per week to the NHS we have to create that wealth - every month. Where will it come from when (even some of) the wealth creators have left our shores.
Please vote to leave if that's what you think is best, but do so understanding the consequences. We will be much the poorer for many years while the rest of Europe continues to grow despite the issues the the EU faces.
The EU may not be perfect but is the alternative really any better?
I am going to make one comment only..
The books of any big company need to be checked and balanced.. If not it's a criminal offence.. Can I ask the good people in this debate.. We keep putting money in... When was the EU's books last balanced ?
I do not like being told by a collective of people how to run the country I live in when there own house is not in order .... Convince me otherwise and my views may change. Running two parliamentary building to appease one country.. Come on...
The books of any big company need to be checked and balanced.. If not it's a criminal offence.. Can I ask the good people in this debate.. We keep putting money in... When was the EU's books last balanced ?
I do not like being told by a collective of people how to run the country I live in when there own house is not in order .... Convince me otherwise and my views may change. Running two parliamentary building to appease one country.. Come on...
I agree with what you say @pgunter. I agree with the problems with the EU which I am sure are not confined to the ones you cite. But I disagree with the solution. If there are faults, and there are, then let's fix it from the inside, not throw the baby out with the bathwater. That's what good management should do.
well I am not going to comment again. I don't see any animosity only requests to clarify what I have done that seems to offend or be misconstrued.
Nothing I have seen has changed my mind, but I see little digs here and there, and I am not sure what they relate to, or maybe I am just too stupid to realise it offends.
It's just my opinion, I stick by it and if that does not go down well then I apologise.
See ya
Nothing I have seen has changed my mind, but I see little digs here and there, and I am not sure what they relate to, or maybe I am just too stupid to realise it offends.
It's just my opinion, I stick by it and if that does not go down well then I apologise.
See ya
Maybe the first step down the road towards getting this all sorted out would to be to kick the Dutch out of the EU..............(uh-oh) FrankieMongrel, you would be ethnically cleansed if I had may way..
The Dutch don't really take much notice of it to be honest, they do their own thing.
Stood in a pub in the UK couple of weeks ago and a drug deal went down right next to me.
Over here they have leagalized 'coffee shops' so that users can get their fix, don't see anything like above in bars in my town.
Went to get a full English breakfast at a Weather Spoons pub on a Friday morning, packed with Brits, yes white Brits, downing pints of beer at 09.30 hrs, probably all on benefits, one came head first down the stairs after visiting the upstairs toilets.
Bars in my town over here don't open until 16.00 hrs.
The UK is in a mess that has nothing to do with the EU.
I've been at East Midlands Airport at 5.30 in the morning for a flight to the Canaries Mike, people are drinking beer at that time. But only because they can. w******s! God only knows why they extended the drinking hours as they did, most local pubs near me have days where they don't open till tea time or even open at all.
As you say the place is f***ed up, no argument from me.
Tony.
Why was my post deleted without even a reason being presented to me! JIM
Because we can, now go and restore one of your cars or something, there's a good chap....
Backs up what I've said before and in that deleted post! You're and insensitive b;:?&/(d as reflected in your post to @Andy McDonnell. May not bother him but sure as h:;l bothers me. Now trot off to your local and try to drink yourself into an early grave! lol JIM
But Boss we're putting smiley cons and lol's into them! You don't really think HT bothers me with his comments about me personally, just the ones he makes about others especially in a country where it would be very difficult if not impossible to find a bloodline that wasn't comprised of mongrels. Same goes over here with Aboriginals and the general population. But I wouldn't terminate them based upon that fact nor would I post such a statement! That's all, over and out! JIM
the way i see it - Thatcher wasn't for turning, why. since then no one could fill her shoes till Blair came along, and he was pro Europe, since Blair the same has happened - his shoes where to big for anyone to fill till now - enter Borris. he is a nutter but he does have what it gona take. (actually his name is Alexander)