Play in drive train?

[lightning]

On my 3.0 there seems to be a fair bit of backlash in the transmission. The clutch is new and the garage said the flywheel was fine (it has only done 56,000 miles)
The backlash can generally be felt while changing the lower gears, as in 1-2 and 2-3.

I had the clutch replaced as it was dragging at times. They said it was about 50% worn.
Where might the play be and can it be fixed? I read that there is a rubber coupling that can become worn, where is this fitted and can l replace it myself?
I fear that the play might be in the differential which will mean nothing can be done, although l have not actually looked under the car.

 

[t-tony]

The rubber Guibo coupleng is at the front of the prop. shaft at the rear of the gearbox. Unlikely to be the problem but well worth checking all the same. If it is in the Diff. It is repairable. Some people remove the CDV, clutch delay valve which improves this problem (also a stainless steel clutch hose wil help).
To be honest if I had gone to the extreme of fitting a clutch I would definitely have changed the DMF regardless of condition. Also check the prop. shaft UJ"s for play too although if there was only amount of play in them (or the Guibo) I would've hoped whoever fitted the clutch ought to have spotted.

Tony.

 

[FRANKIE]

On my 3.0 there seems to be a fair bit of backlash in the transmission. The clutch is new and the garage said the flywheel was fine (it has only done 56,000 miles)
The backlash can generally be felt while changing the lower gears, as in 1-2 and 2-3.

I had the clutch replaced as it was dragging at times. They said it was about 50% worn.
Where might the play be and can it be fixed? I read that there is a rubber coupling that can become worn, where is this fitted and can l replace it myself?
I fear that the play might be in the differential which will mean nothing can be done, although l have not actually looked under the car.

You are correct. There is a rear dif bushing that wears out. However, from those on here that have replaced it, I understand it is not a big deal. There will be several members on here shortly that will verify this and give you an exact idea of what to do and how to do it. It will most probably be within your capabilities...........................Frankie.
PS. There is a proper way to install it in place and an incorrect way to do it. It has to do with the construction of the dif. bushing. If I can find the video that shows this, I'lll post it...................Frankie

 

[FRANKIE]

On my 3.0 there seems to be a fair bit of backlash in the transmission. The clutch is new and the garage said the flywheel was fine (it has only done 56,000 miles)
The backlash can generally be felt while changing the lower gears, as in 1-2 and 2-3.

I had the clutch replaced as it was dragging at times. They said it was about 50% worn.
Where might the play be and can it be fixed? I read that there is a rubber coupling that can become worn, where is this fitted and can l replace it myself?
I fear that the play might be in the differential which will mean nothing can be done, although l have not actually looked under the car.

While viewing this video again, I don't think this is the problem you described. However, if you do replace the diff. bush., this information is good to know...............Frankie

View: https://youtu.be/Vw7Zbp1rfGI

 

[t-tony]

That is the Guibo coupling Frankie and we'll worth checking. Did you mean the Diff. eye mounting bush? It can give a knock/clunk on take off and most people replace it with a poly bush.

Tony.

 

[FRANKIE]

That is the Guibo coupling Frankie and we'll worth checking. Did you mean the Diff. eye mounting bush? It can give a knock/clunk on take off and most people replace it with a poly bush.

Tony.

Sounds like a part you would buy at the Mafia Auto Parts....................Hey, I'll call you for a minute.........Skype

 

[lightning]

I’ll get under the car and see if l can feel any free play in anything.
It’s like a clashing noise as you change gear. The missus’s Defender 90 does a similar thing but it’s on 126,000 miles.
“Normal” said the Land Rover specialist (although my 96,000 mile Defender 110 SW doesn’t do it)

 

[mrscalex]

I have the same thing in my 2.2. It's coming off the road shortly to do the work after driving around for too long like it. It's done 63k and is otherwise silky smooth but it completely spoils the driving experience. I'm going to do a mini overhaul and replace:

• Giudo (I think that's how you spell it)
• Diff mounting bush
• Selector rod joint (it has a foam insert that deteriorates)
• New gearbox oil

Hopefully one or more of those will sort it out. I decided quite early it wasn't the clutch although I don't remember why know, just reading about others with the issue I guess.

 

[FRANKIE]

I’ll get under the car and see if l can feel any free play in anything.
It’s like a clashing noise as you change gear. The missus’s Defender 90 does a similar thing but it’s on 126,000 miles.
“Normal” said the Land Rover specialist (although my 96,000 mile Defender 110 SW doesn’t do it)

Something @t-tony said brought back some memories. I used to get a similar sound in my Ford pick-up when the universal joints were going bad. It happened on two different trucks that I had. It was a clunking noise when shifting gears. I remember that it was a real pain changing them. It's difficult with those trucks to get the pins out that hold the U-joint in place. Since they were exposed to the elements they had some corrosion on them. I think the expression you guys use is that it's a "fiddley" (spelling?) operation but do-able witth patience and thoughtfulness.............Frankie

 

[FRANKIE]

The rubber Guibo coupleng is at the front of the prop. shaft at the rear of the gearbox. Unlikely to be the problem but well worth checking all the same. If it is in the Diff. It is repairable. Some people remove the CDV, clutch delay valve which improves this problem (also a stainless steel clutch hose wil help).
To be honest if I had gone to the extreme of fitting a clutch I would definitely have changed the DMF regardless of condition. Also check the prop. shaft UJ"s for play too although if there was only amount of play in them (or the Guibo) I would've hoped whoever fitted the clutch ought to have spotted.

Tony.

Saw this on u-tube. It looked interesting.

View: https://youtu.be/hhgKhWLiADI

 

[Pingu]

Saw this on u-tube. It looked interesting.

View: https://youtu.be/hhgKhWLiADI

Top bodging. Use a press, or a vice to squeeze the bush into place, not a light hammer with nothing to stop the diff from moving.

The theory is similar with the Z3, but we only have a single diff mount, unless you have modded the car.

A simple tool will help fit a BMW bush (http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29073)



Check the obvious first - are the wheel nuts tight? Do wheels rotate as they should? Bearings OK? Brakes binding?

How to Diagnose Play in Drivetrain
1. Get the car high enough in the air to get under it in comfort, but it should still be on its wheels.
2. Lift the rear wheels off the ground, but support the lower arms so the wheels are free to rotate, but are in their normal running position.
3. Lock one of the rear wheels.
4. Hold the gearbox output flange and rock the free wheel and sense any excessive movement.
5. Work your way through the system twisting adjacent parts until you find the problem. Check for damage, loose bolts, etc.
System
Gearbox output flange
Giubo coupling
Front section of propshaft
Rear section of propshaft
Diff input flange
Diff output flange
Wheel half-shaft
Wheel
6. If you haven't found anything put the wheel on the ground and raise the other rear wheel and check the diff to wheel movement.

You can only really check the gearbox by splitting it from the propshaft and rocking (twisting) the output flange against the engine.

 

[Lee]

I had this develop on my old M and my 2.8. It drove me mad in the end.

I tracked it down to play in the diff, the preload on the pinion gear had released itself causing a clonk when I changed gears.

Worth looking at. video somewhere on here.

Lee

 

[t-tony]

Saw this on u-tube. It looked interesting.

View: https://youtu.be/hhgKhWLiADI

That's what's referred to as a "Twin, or Two eared Diff." Most cars only have the left hand "Ear" to mount to the car.

Tony.

 

[Lee]

Found it.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPsb_YQc44g

 

[Dino D]

Found it.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPsb_YQc44g

Would this also make a noise when going over a bump (relatively slowly)? Like when going over speed bumps?

 

[t-tony]

Would this also make a noise when going over a bump (relatively slowly)? Like when going over speed bumps?

It could do that if you ease off the throttle and then back on it. You can normally pinpoint Diff. backlash by driving in a low gear and keep pressing and releasing the throttle sharply. You'll hear the "clunk" of the driving taking up the slack.

Tony.

 

[lightning]

It’s not really a clonk, it’s a clashing noise when you change gear, as if rotational play is being taken up/released/taken up or something is loose.
The diff mount is fine, or at least the welded bracket is fine l checked it very carefully when l bought the car.
The gearbox oil has been changed and the CDV was removed, now refitted.
I have not yet got under the car, to look at this, l need to take a look as suggested above.

Is it possible for me to reset the preload on the diff if it has play? On a Defender it takes over 200lbs torque on the differential nose bearing nut to compress the spacer, and this is not possible with normal tools.

 

[t-tony]

You ought to be able to get it done at most garages I'd have thought.

Tony.

 

[t-tony]

It’s not really a clonk, it’s a clashing noise when you change gear, as if rotational play is being taken up/released/taken up or something is loose

It is hard to describe the sound you hear, I had this years ago in my old Ford Consul (think Mk1 Granada shape) and I think the noise sort of resonates through the hollow prop. shaft . 200nm is not to difficult to achieve with a decent torque wrench but it's hard to do under a car on your back and you'll likely injure your back trying. At best you need a pit or a ramp I think.

Tony.

 

[Lee]

It’s not really a clonk, it’s a clashing noise when you change gear, as if rotational play is being taken up/released/taken up or something is loose.
The diff mount is fine, or at least the welded bracket is fine l checked it very carefully when l bought the car.
The gearbox oil has been changed and the CDV was removed, now refitted.
I have not yet got under the car, to look at this, l need to take a look as suggested above.

Is it possible for me to reset the preload on the diff if it has play? On a Defender it takes over 200lbs torque on the differential nose bearing nut to compress the spacer, and this is not possible with normal tools.

It's very much the same principle with these diffs.

When laying under the car near the rear see if you can get your hand round the prop shaft and try wiggling it side to side, for me it was very obvious I had a subtle clonk there.

Also while under there make sure the heat shields aren't near the prop, I've seen this a few times where the bushes start to allow too much movement.