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Brrrrrrrr.... It's cold in here!

Discussion in 'M44 Massive' started by upstream, Oct 7, 2014.

  1. upstream

    upstream Regular Member
    The M44 Massive

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    It just seems really odd to me. Surely it wouldn't have been a particularly onerous task while the thermostat was also out of the car?

    Anyway - If anyone knows of someone relatively near to me who is prepared to exchange their skills at changing a water pump for some cash, let me know!!
     
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  2. Lee

    Lee Zorg Guru (V)
    British Zeds #ZedShed M Power

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    @upstream If you are around this weekend there is a meet in Aylesbury, once there me and you could have a chat about getting her into my workshop ;)
     
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  3. upstream

    upstream Regular Member
    The M44 Massive

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    I'm not around unfortunately - thanks for the offer though. I'm going to order the motormec water pump now and so it should arrive in the next few days.
     
  4. t-tony

    t-tony Zorg Expert (I)
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    Obviously you just aren't hungry enough T-tony! lol JIM[/QUOTE]

    Guess what Jim, I had it all to do again this morning because when I ran it up after fitting the pump and t/stat housing the clip on hose wasn't a good fit and it pi$$ed water and antifreeze all over the floor. :( Not a happy bunny this morning.......... all right now, home for tea with Shirl and Xander.:)

    Tony.
     
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  5. upstream

    upstream Regular Member
    The M44 Massive

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    Well... This morning santa (the postman) bought to my door a new Meyle Water pump with metal impeller from Motormec. Now all I need is someone prepared to swap some cash for their expertise and I'll be a happy man!
     
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  6. Zeti

    Zeti Zorg Guru (III)
    Supporter Romanian Zeds The M44 Massive

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    Good Santa! Now we are all waiting the end of this painful problem!:)
    Good luck and hope to hear soon about hot air at idle speed!;)
     
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  7. upstream

    upstream Regular Member
    The M44 Massive

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    Well - on 5th January I have the car booked in to have the water pump changed. I'll keep everyione informed.
     
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  8. upstream

    upstream Regular Member
    The M44 Massive

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    ok...

    I had the waterpump replaced this afternoon. I won't know if the heater is working ok until I drive it this evening. I have my fingers crossed although the mechanic who removed the old one showed it to me and it had a metal impellor on it which leaves me a little concerned.

    I don't want to pre empt anything at this stage but if the heater operation remains unchanged then I may have to make a tough decision as I don't think it'd be worth changing the heater matrix at well over £350 not including any labour.
     
  9. Mint

    Mint Zorg Expert (I)
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    I've just read the thread from the beginning, sorry to hear it's not sorted yet, stick with it you'll be pleased you did when you're driving top down in the Summer (with the heater going full blast - because you've fixed it);).
    Good luck
     
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  10. Brian4

    Brian4 Zorg Guru (IV)
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    I can see a team mending session coming here.
     
  11. upstream

    upstream Regular Member
    The M44 Massive

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    Well...

    Just driven it home. A distance of around 4 miles. The heater is as it was before. It gets slightly warm when driving freely but when at a standstill it cools down again. I'm so disappointed about this to be honest.

    This being the case, having had the thermostat and water pump changed, the only other logical cause is the heater matrix and unfortunately for me, I just can't justify the expense of a replacement.

    So it looks as if I'll sadly have to part company with it.

    Thanks for all of the advice and information guys - I really appreciate it.
     
  12. Brian4

    Brian4 Zorg Guru (IV)
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    Are you sure the heater valve is opening fully? If it isn't the water flow will reduce as the pump slows down. Various YouTube videos on checking/cleaning this valve.
     
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  13. oldcarman

    oldcarman Zorg Guru (V)
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    I realize your frustrated but please take a few days to clear your doubts before you make a decision to get rid of the car for what really could be a small problem. As @Brian4 stated this may need an intervention. Wish I lived closer but I'm sure there's help for you here! JIM
     
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  14. Zeti

    Zeti Zorg Guru (III)
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    Upstream don't give up!
    The replacement of the water pump ant stat are good anyway as they can fall when you don't know the age.
    Now, we know is the matrix or the valves; as is hard to believe the matrix has a hidden (factory) issue it's more probably to be stucked with some dirt, which can be removed by flushing it and you don't need to buy a new one.
    But I suspect more the valve control. Please check by all means the valve. I'm sure this is the reason of the low flow at idle speed.
    Good luck!
     
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  15. Brian H

    Brian H Zorg Guru (V)
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    Are you sure the cooling system is bled properly? The temp setting in the cabin must be on full when bleeding the water system, this opens up the heater matrix, keep at it @upstream, it could be something really simple.
     
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  16. upstream

    upstream Regular Member
    The M44 Massive

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    Hi again guys and thanks for the words of encouragement. I'll answer the points raised in turn...

    With the valve, I suspected early on that this may be the issue so I bypassed it altogether so that coolant would freely flow, unrestricted by the valve, through the heater matrix so this has been ruled out as it is still in it's bypassed state.

    The mechanic that changed the water pump assured me that he had bled it correctly and confirmed that the coolant pipe going into the heater matrix is nice and hot (can't keep your hand held onto it). The one coming out is quite a bit cooler. This is what also leads me to believe that it is a clogged up heater matrix as I can't think of anything else since the thermostat and water pump have been replaced and the heater valve has been bypassed.

    I felt completely deflated after I got home last night (as could probably be evidenced by my post) and I just don't want to spend lots more time (and money) to find that I still haven't got the result.
     
  17. t-tony

    t-tony Zorg Expert (I)
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    Next thing I would do is add some cooling system flush to the coolant system (Wynns do a very good one) use as directed then drain and flush agin. Fill with plain water each time.

    Tony.
     
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  18. hard top

    hard top Zorg Expert (I)
    Dutch Zeds The M44 Massive

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    Something I read a while ago and only just remembered, quote:

    Hello, i just bought my wife a 2001 Z3 with the 3.0 and the other day i turned the heater on for the first time and it blows nothing but cold air. Dial is turned all the way to hot, a/c button is off.
    I dont see any coolent leaks, the coolent level is above the min and below the maximum, a test of the coolent shows the mixture is correct. I have bled the coolent system using the bleeder that sits to the right of the overflow cap. When that didnt fix it, i raised the front of the car up nearly 3 feet and bled it some more, still no heat.
    I found what i belive to be the heater core lines, one goes directly thru the firewall, the other connects to an electronic device then thru the firewall, both hoses are warm/hot to the touch.
    Once the motor warms up, the temp gage stays at about halfway but still no heat. I would appreciate any further instructions to prevent an expensive trip to the dealer.
    Thanks

    It could be the Bowden cable not working under the dash (open/close air flap)

    You also need to keep the RPMs above 2000rpms for the heater valve to open while bleeding the cooling system. Otherwise, you won't be bleeding the heater core. Need to have the heat selector all the way on full heat as well.

    Thanks guys, thats what it was, i took the glove box out as well as the metal plate and found that the clip at the end of the cable that attatches to the lever to change from hot to cold had come loose, snapped the clip back into place now got heat and a/c
    thanks for the quick response!!!

    Similar issue on my 02 Z3. Drove Portland to Seattle with no heat coming out of the vent. Luckily we had heated seats.Bowden cable came loose. Car ran fine, temp normal. Got back to Portland and after reading the thread in this forum, removed the glove box compartment, Bowden cable somehow was disconnected. Thank you guys for sharing...

    You bought your wife a Z3? Did you miss or forgot her birthday? Forgot St-Valentin's day maybe [​IMG]?
     
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  19. hard top

    hard top Zorg Expert (I)
    Dutch Zeds The M44 Massive

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    And.....

    I think I've solved this problem in my '00 M Coupe. It's not caused by the HVAC control unit (the unit with the temp knob) or the bowden cable that connects it to the blend door arm on the heat box. The problem appears to be caused by the blend door catching on something in the heat box when the door is at, or possibly slightly past, the full cold position.

    Fortunately the cable is adjustable at the blend door arm connector. To get at it you have to remove the kick panel (which includes the glove box) and a metal bracket that blocks access to the cable connector. The bracket is held on with three screws (10mm socket and extension needed):


    [​IMG]

    Once you have those pieces removed, move the temp knob to the full hot position so the connector and control arm are in view:

    [​IMG]

    The connector uses spring pressure to grip the cable. Adjust the cable by bracing the connector with a screwdriver while you grip the cable with needle nose pliers and slide it to the right in the connector. Use the screwdriver to avoid putting pressure on the plastic control arm while you move the cable. I moved the cable approx. 1/8", which was just enough to prevent the blend door inside the heat box from sticking. It's a good idea to adjust the cable, move the temp knob to full cold, and then let it sit for 10 minutes or so before testing it by turning up the heat knob. In my car the blend door sticks more if it's had some time resting in the cold position.

    [​IMG]

    A couple additional tips for adjusting the cable:
    • After changing the position of the cable in the blend door connector, turn the temp knob back and forth between full cold and full hot to make sure the blend door isn't hitting or binding against anything inside the heat box.
    • You may want to put something on the cable to prevent it from sliding in the connector. In the third picture you can see a small gap between the right edge of the connector and the cable's bent tip. I found a small wire tie that just fit in that gap, preventing the cable from moving again.
     
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  20. Brian4

    Brian4 Zorg Guru (IV)
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    As Tony says some radiator flush could clear any blockage in the heater matrix. Could you disconnect the heater pipes and flush the heater with a garden hose both ways to see if any thing more comes out.

    Also reading of some similar issues could need bleeding as they seem a pain to get all the air out of. I am sure the garage did a good job but here is one method.


    How to bleed the cooling system.
    1.Jack the front of the vehicle up onto stands as high as possible,
    2.Turn the ignition on,engine off,heater on fan setting 1 and temperature fully hot,
    3.Remove the rad cap/expansion cap,remove the bleed screw from the radiator and IF you have them the bleed screw(s) from the thermostat housing/top hose, return pipe or EGR thermostat.
    4.Fill the radiator up and keep pouring till there are no more air bubbles coming out from the bleeds, using a funnel that fits tight in the radiator neck and filling it full of water will help push any troublesome air out, when good you can then install the bleeds and tighten down(don't snap them),ensure the rubber O-rings/seals are still on the screws/on the bleed holes.
    5.Suck some water out so it's not full to the brim, replace the cap and then start the car. Run her up and check for heat from the vents when warm and check if over heating still persists. You may have to bleed troublesome cars twice(but rare).
    6.If all is good then check the water level again in the morning when cool.

    Don't give up on us yet we want to see you at one of the meets in the spring.
     
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