#ZedShed Project Dino D

Brian H

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I'll certainly get some pictures up Dino but it may be at weekend, for me the 6kg spring were too soft, I had to adjust the dampers to give a stiffer ride to stop them bottoming out, if I hit a ridge/bump in the road it was like someone belting me in the back. With the 8kg spring now in the car, the car can ride with softer dampers as I know it will not bottom out.
Although there is 10mm difference between the two sets off the car the 8kg spring do not sag as much as the 6kg springs under the static weight of the car, hence at this point I do not need any spring adjusters in at all.
I still have both my too and bottom OEM spring pads in too so I could lower another 5mm or so if required.

I personally think the softer 6kg springs should have been 10mm longer than the stiffer 8kg spring, but what do I know?

Just to add, our roads local are all A roads with National speed limits of 60mph, so we do tend to crack on a bit, I think this in itself has shown up the 6kg springs as wrong for me.
 
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Dino D

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No worries Brian, whenever you can re the pics.
Glad to have someone to talk through all the options it presents!

What setting are you running the dampers on now?

Just wondering if you can use the adjusters to shorten the spring to get the drop you want with the 8kg?
Or did that make it harsh/bottom out again?

Do you think stacking some lower spring pads with the 6kg would the result of giving more travel?
 

Dino D

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I got the lip via eBay, follow the link for the exact one, it's a rubber type rather than foam, been very sturdy and hides and marks from rubbing well.
Anyhow I've found a great cost effective, durable and black rubber customizable lip.
eBay link:
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=321742333048


View attachment 16346

As fitted to my car, I'll get better pics at the weekend.

I went for this over the cheaper foam lips as this is rubber and is certainly tough and had a smart matte finish.
Very easy to work with but if I do it again I'll just whip the bumper cover off for ease of working.

A little tip: I used some velcro self adhesive tape to position the lip and hold it in place and move it about until happy before drilling the screws in to secure it to the bumper (screws and plates supplied).
 

Stormy_be

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I hope I will be able to jump in on the suspension-talk any time soon.
My springs are 10kg (as my car is normally a "trackday-only" car).
Can you measure the 6kg and 8kg springs (unloaded), so that we can compare the unloaded height of all the different types?

Regards, Koen
 

Dino D

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I hope I will be able to jump in on the suspension-talk any time soon.
My springs are 10kg (as my car is normally a "trackday-only" car).
Can you measure the 6kg and 8kg springs (unloaded), so that we can compare the unloaded height of all the different types?

Regards, Koen
Funny you mention this, just put the 8kg's in a couple of days ago and was meaning to post.
Much better, really good now. Just playing with the damping to get it to my taste. Rear is much more compliant and less harsh, funny how a heavier spring makes for a better ride. Got me thinking if I should have gone for 8kg for the the fronts too...with the FK silver line was harsh but it did not have adjustable damping which has made the difference here I think.

The 8kg does add some height and that I need to address is the car is too high now.
Will get the springs off again soon and measure them. It's something BC should show in their literature but sadly don't, more on that later on.

On the 6kg I had the adjusting collars both in plus some height dialled in (but without the OEM top spring pads). The car was corner weighted with that set up as I was happy with the ride height.
Since then I added the OEM top spring pads to the 6kg which increased height marginally.
Now it's even higher with the the 8kg minus 1 adjusting collar. My theory was to match the height of the 6kg spring and adjuster collars to go back to my original height. What I did not take into account the fact that the 8kg compresses less at rest than the 6kg. So when off the car the 8kg plus adjuster/pads needs to be shorter than the 6kg set up if I want to get the same ride height.

So I think when looking at the height of the spring we need to take into account the weight that will be on it at rest to determine how much it will settle to be able to compare how much higher or lower one spring will be compared to another.

I don't want very low for a few reasons - too much rear camber is costly on tyres and handling (road), too lowmakes grounding and issue around here. So I am aiming to get back done to the height I it was when corner weighted. On the other it feels a bit too high at the rear now and certainly looks it.

Here is pic of the springs to show what I mean:
image.jpg


On the RIGHT is the 6kg spring with the adjuster collars set to give the height I want (minus top spring pad).
On the LEFT is the 8kg with one collar wound right to the top and the OEM top spring pad. When unloaded it matches the height of the 6kg but when on the car it's made it noticeably higher.
So I'm going to try removing the remaining collar and the top sorting pad and see from there.
Not sure I can actually make it lower than that.

Here is a straight comparison of the springs LEFT 6kg and right 8kg.
image.jpg



At this point should comment on my experience and thoughts of BC as a company and the products for the benefit of others thinking of them as there aren't many Z's in UK with them on.
The product is really good, cannot complain at this price point. However the research for our cars is lacking and it grates me that their reply to the bottoming out was 'we've never heard of an issue with the 6kg springs'. It's just not good enough to trot out that excuse especially when an actual customer has just told you of the issue...in my experience the 6kg kit should be offered with a warning of bottoming out (or not at all in UK) and they should make mention that the drop in height will be less with the 8kg springs compared with the 6kg.

For other cars I believe they have done development in the UK with customer cars but so far nothing on ours. If they did they would know the 6kg spring is too soft for the rear. I was hoping for more of a helpful reply from them but their attitude to service in this case grates and If I could I would not have spent another penny with them. However on the other hand with this forum and the great people on it we are doing our own R+D and at the end of the day I have a suspension set up that gives the adjustability I want and works well at a price unmatched by any other brand so far (I do not want non-adjustable springs or dampers on the car again).

Hope this helps other out there.
 

Lee

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I'm glad your getting somewhere with this. I spent weeks trying to think what could be causing it to bottom out and thinking surely it can't be the design.

Lee
 

oldcarman

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Great info all around even though I won't have to worry about it with my 1.9. Hopefully it's all registering in my memory bank and that it's not like the Greek banks where they're only allowed to take out a very little of their money daily, JIM
 

Stormy_be

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Belgian Zeds
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I don't have 6kg or 8kg springs.
So to be able to compare them with 10kg spring, I would need to have a measuring tape next to your picture of just the springs.

Regards, Koen
 

Brian H

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Funny you mention this, just put the 8kg's in a couple of days ago and was meaning to post.
Much better, really good now. Just playing with the damping to get it to my taste. Rear is much more compliant and less harsh, funny how a heavier spring makes for a better ride. Got me thinking if I should have gone for 8kg for the the fronts too...with the FK silver line was harsh but it did not have adjustable damping which has made the difference here I think.

The 8kg does add some height and that I need to address is the car is too high now.
Will get the springs off again soon and measure them. It's something BC should show in their literature but sadly don't, more on that later on.

On the 6kg I had the adjusting collars both in plus some height dialled in (but without the OEM top spring pads). The car was corner weighted with that set up as I was happy with the ride height.
Since then I added the OEM top spring pads to the 6kg which increased height marginally.
Now it's even higher with the the 8kg minus 1 adjusting collar. My theory was to match the height of the 6kg spring and adjuster collars to go back to my original height. What I did not take into account the fact that the 8kg compresses less at rest than the 6kg. So when off the car the 8kg plus adjuster/pads needs to be shorter than the 6kg set up if I want to get the same ride height.

So I think when looking at the height of the spring we need to take into account the weight that will be on it at rest to determine how much it will settle to be able to compare how much higher or lower one spring will be compared to another.

I don't want very low for a few reasons - too much rear camber is costly on tyres and handling (road), too lowmakes grounding and issue around here. So I am aiming to get back done to the height I it was when corner weighted. On the other it feels a bit too high at the rear now and certainly looks it.

Here is pic of the springs to show what I mean:
View attachment 19130

On the RIGHT is the 6kg spring with the adjuster collars set to give the height I want (minus top spring pad).
On the LEFT is the 8kg with one collar wound right to the top and the OEM top spring pad. When unloaded it matches the height of the 6kg but when on the car it's made it noticeably higher.
So I'm going to try removing the remaining collar and the top sorting pad and see from there.
Not sure I can actually make it lower than that.

Here is a straight comparison of the springs LEFT 6kg and right 8kg.View attachment 19131


At this point should comment on my experience and thoughts of BC as a company and the products for the benefit of others thinking of them as there aren't many Z's in UK with them on.
The product is really good, cannot complain at this price point. However the research for our cars is lacking and it grates me that their reply to the bottoming out was 'we've never heard of an issue with the 6kg springs'. It's just not good enough to trot out that excuse especially when an actual customer has just told you of the issue...in my experience the 6kg kit should be offered with a warning of bottoming out (or not at all in UK) and they should make mention that the drop in height will be less with the 8kg springs compared with the 6kg.

For other cars I believe they have done development in the UK with customer cars but so far nothing on ours. If they did they would know the 6kg spring is too soft for the rear. I was hoping for more of a helpful reply from them but their attitude to service in this case grates and If I could I would not have spent another penny with them. However on the other hand with this forum and the great people on it we are doing our own R+D and at the end of the day I have a suspension set up that gives the adjustability I want and works well at a price unmatched by any other brand so far (I do not want non-adjustable springs or dampers on the car again).

Hope this helps other out there.
Glad you like the 8kgs, it does make a real difference, I am on full soft damper setting on the road, I hope you will notice, no more bottoming out. I personally think that 8kgs up front may be a little too harsh.
 

Dino D

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Yep no bottoming out and yet more comfortable! No comparison to the 8kg progressive rate that I had on the FK Silverlines which on paper are superior (German made using shocks from a big name and supposedly progressive rates).

I'm actually running around -12 clicks from full hard and liking it. The front is now -10clicks to to match but still tuning to get the front in line.
Not had much time to really drive yet on my usual roads so will see if too stiff...
)However I actually spent 3hrs washing and polishing on a beautiful evening instead of driving...I think the autoglym fumes or maybe the diamond white aluminium polish and meguiars power ball drill attachment have gone to my head and given me that 'detailers' disease. I nearly made a login for detailing world recently!)

But just shows how we all have such varying preferences hence my belief that adjustable is the only way to go as it's just not possible for one setting to account for everybody's tastes and roads they drive on.
 

Dino D

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Ok so had the springs out again @Lee would be proud, less than 2hrs which includes finding my tools(!) and taking breaks.

8kg is pictured on the left. It's now installed only with the OEM top and bottom spring pads (5mm thick each) and the smaller rubber pads that comes with the BC kit (my kit came with 4 of these and they help locate the spring better than without anything in place). Now there are no adjuster collars or the the rod with the threads.

On the right is the 6kg as it used to be. I'm trying to get to same ride height as it used to be in the 6kg as it was in the pictured configuration:

image.jpg

The 8kg set up looks much shorter now than the previous 6kg plus height adjustment but due to less compression under load on the 8kh the car seems to be at the height I was going for.
Rides great. Have even tried it on full soft and is nice but I think I'll probably settle on 10clicks from soft (-22from hard).

The increased ride height was very noticeable and I didn't like it now that I feel how rides sitting back to where it should be. It's very noticeable the effect on the way it handles (the increase in rear height) and of course throws the weight balance front to rear.



Pic of the 8kg vs 6kg spring - approx 13mm difference.
image.jpg




Interesting to note the 8kg (right) does not have any rubber tubing around the middle coils.
The 6kg was compressing to the point that the coils were hitting each other as evidenced by the wear marks pictured below. This also cracked the coating causing rust already. How BC can recommend 6kg for 2.8 and 3.2 cars is astonishing...
image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg
 
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Stormy_be

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https://zroadster.org/attachments/image-jpg.19135/
Using the same setup as in this picture (left spring), the 10kg springs supplied to me are 14 cm high.
Can't really read well the cm-numbers on your picture, but looks these are a lot higher.

Regards, Koen
PS: will take a picture later...but the wife is already behind me while typing this as we need to leave :-s
 

Dino D

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So the heights of the springs (bare with no pads or adjusters on) are approx:

6kg - 15cm tall
8kg - 16,3cm tall
10kg - 14 cm tall
 

Stormy_be

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Well looking at my springs and your pictures, which number are on your springs?
I think they say it all.

Mine have 62.130.010 --> 13cm high and 10 kg
yours have 62.150.006 on then and are 15cm - 6kg
and 2nd set 62.160.008 on them and are 16cm - 8 kg

pay attention, having springs that are x cm lower will lower the car with more then x cm, as the hub is located further from the hing-point then the spring.
 

Dino D

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Good spot on the part numbers Koen,
I don't think even BC have worked that out else they would have the spring heights up on their site...would be useful if they showed and approximate figure for the max/min drop you can have per spring option.

Re the height and pivot point: I've read about that and believe the ratio is around 1,6 (so if the spring is higher/lower by 1cm it will add/minus 1,6cm to ride height). I can't be 100% on that number as I read it some time back.
And then you have to take into account the spring rating as the stiffer spring settles less and vice versa...

So the 3cm difference between the 8kg and 10kg spring will translate to around 4,5cm in ride height.
So it looks like you'll have plenty of scope to go as low as you like with those. The 8kg is quite limited in the lowering department but luckily I'm not looking for it to be too low (currently have about 2 fingers arch gap) but for those that want really low then 10kg is the way to go it seems.
Looking forward to hear how it rides..
 

Stormy_be

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Or they could go for 62.150.008.
Which would result in +/- the ride height you had with the 6kg springs (a little higher because they will compress less from the normal load of the car)
....that would good to get measured (if possible): the amount the spring is indented under normal load --> height of the spring as we just measured, minus the height of the spring (also height of spring only, so not taken rubbers into account) when under the car, with normal load of the car on the spring.

The stiffer spring could mean the spring doesn't bottom out anymore, even with the same height as the 6kg you have.
 

Brian H

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Good spot on the part numbers Koen,
I don't think even BC have worked that out else they would have the spring heights up on their site...would be useful if they showed and approximate figure for the max/min drop you can have per spring option.
BC have given me the spring heights before so they are aware of the differences in height, I though I had posted this somewhere, maybe it was in a PM?

It would be very difficult to approximate the drop/sag on a per spring basis, these springs will be common to a few models, the placement of the spring in the suspension system will dictate the forces applied upon it and therefore return different results.

So the 3cm difference between the 8kg and 10kg spring will translate to around 4,5cm in ride height.
So it looks like you'll have plenty of scope to go as low as you like with those. The 8kg is quite limited in the lowering department but luckily I'm not looking for it to be too low (currently have about 2 fingers arch gap) but for those that want really low then 10kg is the way to go it seems.
Looking forward to hear how it rides..
I bet there is not a huge difference between the 8 & 10kg springs when it comes to ride height, as we can see above the compression on the 8s is far less than the 6s, the same will apply to the 10s. Also remember that Koen has/Is going to have fibreglass panels which strips most of the weight out of the rear of the car therefore affecting the ride height.
 
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