Another crank, no start.

Steve C

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British Zeds
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Jul 29, 2019
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18
Location
Eastleigh
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1.9 M44
Spent the last 2 weekends in the garage and starting to run out of steam.
Tried re-alignment again with Rheingold.
Studied wiring diagrams to trace input/outputs.
I think if I knew what the DME was expecting from the seperate modules I would have a better chance.
Will probably leave alone until some inspiration or boredom leads me down the garden path.

Mrscalex.. If you are ever down this way, you would be most welcome to pop in.
 

Andyboy

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Jun 2, 2019
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I had an Audi recently with a weird starting problem - occasionally it wouldn't start. Then you'd release the key and try again - bingo.

Was the crank sensor. It all checked out OK, but it wasn't. For the sake of a few quid and 20 minutes work I'd replace it with a used one. Fault codes often mean nothing - for example, a failed MAF won't show a fault code at all.

EWS1 used the high/low signal from the door locks to the body control module and then to the starter relay and the engine ECU via the OBC if fitted. That was 9/1993 to 12/94 though.

EWS2 arrived on all BMW's in 1/95 and was the chipped key talking to the EWS module via the plastic ring.

Have you checked that the car hasn't got an alarm immobiliser? A lot of these and other BMW's of this era had a dealer fit alarm (2T, 3G etc) and the more sophisticated versions had a connection to the ECU (DME). This was generally BMW's that didn't have remote locking on the key but not always as I had 8 Series etc with the three button key and a BMW alarm.

EWS3D was fitted from late 1998 (1999 model year) - that's when BMW started adding E46 style electronics. The rolling code was EWS3 and variants, 3.2, 3.3 and 3D. EWS3 arrived in 1997 for the E38 and E39 and the didn't have a separate EWS module but had everything done by the ECU itself.

So - I'd be replacing the crank sensor first as well as looking around for signs of an alarm/immobiliser.
 
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Steve C

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British Zeds
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Jul 29, 2019
Messages
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Location
Eastleigh
Model of Z
1.9 M44
Afternoon Andy
Car does have the dealer fitted alarm with the separate 2 button key fob.
Seems to work fine with locking and unlocking and siren sounds when activated.
From the gumph I've read, high signal = bad, Low signal = good.
Would a low signal be 0 volts?

Crank sensor has been changed so this can be ruled out.
 

t-tony

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Where did you source the crank sensor and how much was it? It is not uncommon for very cheap items to sometimes be faulty from new.

Tony.
 

Andyboy

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I've never bought one for a BMW but I'd only use Bosch. From memory they're 100 quid from BMW.
 

Andyboy

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Afternoon Andy
Car does have the dealer fitted alarm with the separate 2 button key fob.
Seems to work fine with locking and unlocking and siren sounds when activated.
From the gumph I've read, high signal = bad, Low signal = good.
Would a low signal be 0 volts?

Crank sensor has been changed so this can be ruled out.
OK. Reading the BMW alarm fitting manuals, cars with EWSII don't have any immobiliser wires connected. If you can find the control unit (probably behind glovebox) would disconnecting it do anything? Try disconnecting the body control module as well. Be aware that there is both a DME relay in the fuse box AND an unloader relay which on the E36 is under the dash. This powers (from the green wire on the ignition switch along with green wire terminal 56 on the ECU) the coils (green wire from relay), the fuel pump relay (red 30 on fuel pump relay).

The unloader relay is one of the pale green ones with four wires, green, red, green and brown.

The ECU's driveaway signal is at terminal 10 (green or black/purple).

EWS has three fuses in the front box, 28, 31 and 45.

Do you have an EWSII diagram? If not I'll dig one out.
 

Steve C

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British Zeds
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Location
Eastleigh
Model of Z
1.9 M44
OK. So still having trouble getting this running.
Been having to walk to work for the past 5 months and with the weather turning, really want to get this on the road.
I can't believe that a problem like this is so elusive that it won't show on INPA
The only thing that can't be read by INPA is the dash but don't think a fault here could cause the non-start.
This may be due to using USB and not serial ADS
Does anyone have a Foxwell 530 they can loan? I believe this is a true ADS and may pick up something thats being missed.
 

mrscalex

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I know you're getting desperate but I think that's unlikely to be a consideration.

Have you pulled the DME to check that none of the pins are corroded. Don't underestimate the impact this could have. I've personally experienced a car where the engine had a hole punched in the sump caused by a corroded cylinder firing pin. In other words the rest of the setup could be fine but if the electrical signals aren't getting in and out of the DME you are stuffed.

I'm not sure you said whether you replaced the crack sensor with a decent make? A crappy make has a significant chance of not working even from new.
 

Steve C

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Location
Eastleigh
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1.9 M44
Morning.

The crank sensor was not cheap but possibly not a Bosch or OEM

I think the fault is showing before any cranking occurs as the fuel does not prime at ignition on.
Everything has been checked on this and can even be operated with INPA
Fuel pump was a bit dodgy before but has now been replaced.

DME has been in and out several times and all looks clean.
Would a switch/contact cleaner be advised here?

Looks likely that I may need to spend next weekend locked in the garage testing all input/output wires to the DME.
 

mrscalex

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In may case the pins were obviously corroded. But unless you've examined each pin individually as opposed to having a quick look I'd be tempted to do it again. If they look okay I would say they probably are okay.

I have a second-hand known good crank sensor if you did want to swap it out in case. Also a coil pack if you haven't done that.

This whole area is one I've known and researched pretty well in the past but a) not done anything with it for a year or so now b) it's always been on M54s.

The best advice I can give is to leave the car alone. And google, google and google again. Filling your head with as much theory as possible about the sequence of events, how to confirm each is happening and to discover the experience of others. With all due respect to the good folk of this forum there are usually other forums that are better for this sort of electrical detail.

In other words I would suggest a bottom to top approach based on this theory. Rather than just working through a checklist of common issues.

I once spent about 40 hours across 2 weeks understanding how the EWS (immobiliser) works as I had a very strange issue with no cranking. It turned out the immobiliser logic was working perfectly but the onboard relay had seized. There's no way I'd have worked that out or known how to flash up a replacement unless I'd done all that theory.
 

mrscalex

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And if your fuel isn't priming before cranking I would use that as your biggest clue. I think it's likely to be very significant.

But don't assume it's a fuel system fault. The DME could be determining something downstream is faulty and preventing the priming for safety reasons.
 

Steve C

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Location
Eastleigh
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1.9 M44
Thanks mrscalex

Your help is very much appreciated.
I would have given up ages ago if it wasn't for these forums and spent loads more if my bank balance could've coped.

I have spent quite a lot of time searching the web. Just need to filter out all the crap that sometimes gets written.
 

mrscalex

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I have spent quite a lot of time searching the web. Just need to filter out all the crap that sometimes gets written.
That I agree very much with. Discussions on areas with scant knowledge are usually filled up to a signifcant degree wih speculation, misunderstanding and plan bullsh*t. I'm afraid you have to develop a 6th sense - eg learn which forum members are knowledgeable and reliable, once you have a workable theory try and validate it with a second source. I'd say 95% of material on this type of discussion is not useable. You're looking for the 5% which is and it's hard work to find it. Rest assured the anwer will be out there. You just need to find it. You are surely not the first person to have this issue. And these cars are relatively simple at the end of the day - there will most likely be a relatively simple fix. I'll put my house on that belief.

Try and think laterally too how you may find it. Instead of searching for 1.9/M44 search for the BMW internal designation of the DME, MSE 43 or whatever it is for your engine.
 

Murray Wall

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Maybe its time to seek advice from over seas. I do it all the time.

Register on the Bimmerforums Z3 page http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?137-Z3-(E36-7-E36-8)

Start a private message with user "328 Power 04". Abe is the local guru for all things INPA and DME/EWS related on that site. He can help sort out your serial/ADS INPA if needed.
 
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