Track and Trace

[Keet]

So, the UK are trialling a track and trace app that will use Bluetooth tech to identify and notify if you come into contact with someone who has Covid-19.

South Korea have been using something similar for a while, the US and Australia are among other countries planning them.

Would you use it when it's available?

 

[Rha]

Seems to me they should have started a on line register for people who've had the symptoms and not gone into hospital,at least we'd have some idea how many people reackon they've had it. You'd have some idea just how it gets passed around specially among family and friends. Could have been a regional register which would give even more info. A register up and runnng in the first week with today's computer/I phone ownership and techno wouldn't take that long to get working. Don't take a genius to work that one out. At the moment if you think you've got it you self isolate and probably only your closest friends and family would know. The authorities don't have any idea. These people who aren't front line will probably never know if they've had it or not and as for the flexibility of the spare testing capacity surely that could've been used for the registered suspects or at least up to its daily limit. The mind boggles in this day and age of computer science why the info is just not available.
Please someone tell me I'm wrong and there is a register and the Gov do have some idea how many people think they've had it.

RHA Roy.

 

[mrscalex]

So, the UK are trialling a track and trace app that will use Bluetooth tech to identify and notify if you come into contact with someone who has Covid-19

Not quite. You'll be notified if the person thinks they have C-19 and has chosen to disclose this to the app.

 

[t-tony]

But this system can only work if people are honest enough to say they have symptoms, and in time to be effective? Could be better than not having it but I'm sceptical.

Tony.

 

[Jasn]

The one proposed for Australia works by recording when you've been in prolonged (>15 minutes) contact with someone else (who has the app). When someone is diagnosed, the State health department can then access the record in the phone and follow up with everyone else that person has been in contact with. It is meant to replace the need for a diagnosed person to remember when and where they have been and to make tracking down contacts easier for the health staff. Privacy concerns are the big hurdle in Australia — I think a lot of people will decline to install it despite the government's assurances the data won't be used for any other purpose.

 

[AleNod]

Hmmmm. If it helps to control covid and allows people to have movement, for me despite being protective of my own privacy yes, I probably would (they're talking of doing it here in Dubai too).

I wonder how they'll handle range ? Bluetooth spec is around 30 feet, but thats supposed to be a minimum. I suppose thats the app developers problem, but if 6 feet distancing is 'safe', it gives the opportunity for a lot of false positives. I suppose its still a narrower sample to test than the wider population now I think about it . . .

Anything that helps economies back on their feet, but safely. Businesses are already failing, I suspect the economic landscape when we come out the other side of this is going to look very different . . .

 

[Shelly]

I don’t know if I’d trust it
Like people have already said will it be trustworthy
And also on our phones why can’t we have something that makes a noise if someone come to close to us

 

[Redline]

This is the trade-off. Your potential privacy against knowing if the t**t who pushed right by you in Asda has symptoms or is confirmed. On that level, it is a no-brainier.

On something so serious, you have to believe any data would be. Protected and not be used for any other purpose.
The data held and recorded third party devices is only your Bluetooth MAC address, and theirs on yours. No personal data need be involved - it’s just an electronic address (although some BT names might be interesting). That address alone says nothing about you, only your phone.

However - It relies on the other party (or you) confirming COVID-19 status. The t**t in Asda isn’t likely to do that.

BT is a point to point technology. There is no triangulation unlike on your phone signal, so actual position and hence distance from the BT alone cannot be determined. That’s going to prompt false positives but, BT signal strength could be used as a gating trigger. GPS only has an accuracy of 10m too so is little help in positioning. Approx position may be helpful though for tracing outside the app allowing authorities to trace more quickly without the need to question a potentially ill patient.

So, there’s a number of technology, process and behavioural issues to overcome.

Personally, the privacy issue is minor compared to those. But, there are a number of significant but not fatal weaknesses in the whole chain. That said, considering the frightening number of family and friends I’ve already lost, anything that helps reduce and stop this virus, the better.

This app however will not protect you in any way. It is to alert you of any previous contact. That you may not want to know, but, simply knowing about potential contact and infection is a massive bonus for the authorities in managing us out of this crisis.

Some countries are seeking mandatory powers, not for personal data reasons, but to determine the actual extent of infection and potential for transmission. They’re not looking to track you. This isn’t about that at all. That gives much greater insight into the potential viral load in the community and hence risk of a further bout of infections. This is important data. Something that technology can help with.

On the basis that phone providers already have access the location data for you, as does Google and Apple, that privacy issue is effectively a dead issue. If needed, the police can get access to that data. You can be certain the security agencies already have access to it. Besides, most of us freely give away location data in apps constantly.

Simple call - privacy or dead?
Anything that helps reduce the chance of the latter, directly or indirectly, the better imho.

 

[Rha]

This is the trade-off. Your potential privacy against knowing if the t**t who pushed right by you in Asda has symptoms or is confirmed. On that level, it is a no-brainier.

On something so serious, you have to believe any data would be. Protected and not be used for any other purpose.
The data held and recorded third party devices is only your Bluetooth MAC address, and theirs on yours. No personal data need be involved - it’s just an electronic address (although some BT names might be interesting). That address alone says nothing about you, only your phone.

However - It relies on the other party (or you) confirming COVID-19 status. The t**t in Asda isn’t likely to do that.

BT is a point to point technology. There is no triangulation unlike on your phone signal, so actual position and hence distance from the BT alone cannot be determined. That’s going to prompt false positives but, BT signal strength could be used as a gating trigger. GPS only has an accuracy of 10m too so is little help in positioning. Approx position may be helpful though for tracing outside the app allowing authorities to trace more quickly without the need to question a potentially ill patient.

So, there’s a number of technology, process and behavioural issues to overcome.

Personally, the privacy issue is minor compared to those. But, there are a number of significant but not fatal weaknesses in the whole chain. That said, considering the frightening number of family and friends I’ve already lost, anything that helps reduce and stop this virus, the better.

This app however will not protect you in any way. It is to alert you of any previous contact. That you may not want to know, but, simply knowing about potential contact and infection is a massive bonus for the authorities in managing us out of this crisis.

Some countries are seeking mandatory powers, not for personal data reasons, but to determine the actual extent of infection and potential for transmission. They’re not looking to track you. This isn’t about that at all. That gives much greater insight into the potential viral load in the community and hence risk of a further bout of infections. This is important data. Something that technology can help with.

On the basis that phone providers already have access the location data for you, as does Google and Apple, that privacy issue is effectively a dead issue. If needed, the police can get access to that data. You can be certain the security agencies already have access to it. Besides, most of us freely give away location data in apps constantly.

Simple call - privacy or dead?
Anything that helps reduce the chance of the latter, directly or indirectly, the better imho.

Simple solution to all this hype, tin of red paint, tin of green paint. Green for overpainting the Red Cross on your front door after 14 days. Jobs a good un.

Who needs Bluetooth.

 

[Stevo7682]

Mrs was watching The One Show last night the guy from Watchdog was on it talking about a Covid 19 tracker app ( for mobiles)that is one of a number about at the moment but this one he was talking about if opened and link followed it will infect your device lock it down threaten to send all your pictures and videos to all your contacts ( which seems it can't do ) they gave the unlock code out last night for anyone whose phone is locked by this app.

Unfortunately these times are a scammers dream with everyone online to do so much at the moment.
Stephen.

 

[ktnez99]

But this system can only work if people are honest enough to say they have symptoms, and in time to be effective? Could be better than not having it but I'm sceptical.

Tony.

It will be interesting to note the uptake on this app. I’m of the opinion people won’t want to use it or can’t use it (not internet savvy) and time will tell.

 

[ktnez99]

Hmmmm. If it helps to control covid and allows people to have movement, for me despite being protective of my own privacy yes, I probably would (they're talking of doing it here in Dubai too).

I wonder how they'll handle range ? Bluetooth spec is around 30 feet, but thats supposed to be a minimum. I suppose thats the app developers problem, but if 6 feet distancing is 'safe', it gives the opportunity for a lot of false positives. I suppose its still a narrower sample to test than the wider population now I think about it . . .

Anything that helps economies back on their feet, but safely. Businesses are already failing, I suspect the economic landscape when we come out the other side of this is going to look very different . . .

Thinking you have symptoms and testing positive are two very different things. Testing is crucial to the Exit Strategy in Lockdown.

 

[Redline]

Thinking you have symptoms and testing positive are two very different things. Testing is crucial to the Exit Strategy in Lockdown.

Agree but it’s only a part of the problem. Even with a vaccine there is likely to be limited protection. It’s suggested that antibodies will only give immunity for two years or so. I guess the flu vaccine will be augmented with this in coming years especially if some countries don’t get it under control as looks likely for a number of reasons. We in the UK will need to be protected from Numpties around the globe. Certified vaccination will be mandatory in many countries including those who will willingly let their own people go unprotected. Welcome to the land of the free as they say.