Top Gear going Green.??????????

Rha

Zorg Guru (V)
Supporter
British Zeds
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Points
181
Location
Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, England.
Model of Z
Z4 coupe sport.
Just read that they’re going green and that they believe there’ll be 70% electric cars in this country by 2029.
I believe they might get a wake up call unless the wages in this country increase significantly for the working classes or the price of said vehicles drops over the same period. Glad they’re leaning towards green but hope they don’t drop combustion engined vehicles too soon, think they may have a real dull program on their hands if they do. What do you think.

RHA, ROY.
 
I'm not looking forward to driving around in a milk float or forklift, because they're the only electric vehicles I'm going to be able to afford as I enter my retirement years
 
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It's all a load of bloody rammel! Leave us alone to enjoy our cars. We aren't all in a position to buy these massively over inflated piles of rubbish nor would I wish to own one if I could....
 
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I'm not looking forward to driving around in a milk float or forklift, because they're the only electric vehicles I'm going to be able to afford as I enter my retirement years

Any use......?????????? One careful owner!!!!

0DD0DD98-F8D6-4914-914F-AA16A1EF6C8A.webp
 
You still got it Malc?;)=))=))

Tony.
 
I lost interest in TG a number of years ago, so don't care what they do.
 
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Whilst I accept that when change comes it comes quick I just can't see that 70% of cars will be electric in 9 years. Far to much money in oil, where would the chancellor get his massive cheque from every week if fuel is barely being used?
 
I question the availability of sufficient charging stations to handle that many electric vehicles without endless waiting periods, and unless they come up with batteries that last longer than current batteries, there will be fewer long trips,I would think. Add to that the loss of the "fun" aspect of driving, the part we z owners enjoy.
 
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I question the availability of sufficient charging stations to handle that many electric vehicles without endless waiting periods, and unless they come up with batteries that last longer than current batteries, there will be fewer long trips,I would think. Add to that the loss of the "fun" aspect of driving, the part we z owners enjoy.
You've hit the nail on the head mate. Until every household can charge their cars at home over night, which will never happen and you can charge a car from empty to full in 5 minutes then electric cars will be a retrograde step over petrol/diesel.
 
Current cars will still be on the roads - there’s no doubt about that.
It will take massive incentives will change that. Politics will get in the way of that.
New cars will be all but entirely EV of one kind or another.

Going to be a bit controversial - yes, there are rare circumstances when you need a recharge quickly, but, your cars spend 95%+ of their time standing idle. My car is fully charged every morning. Just needs a very small change in mindset to plug in every night - more in a moment
For pure EVs, you’ll typically get several days use before needing to recharge.
If you may have to drive a distance beyond the range in one journey without prior notice then a pure EV isn’t the right choice for you.

With the right capacity, electric cars are fast. Really fast.
Despite the initial cost, electric miles can cost about 10% of ice miles. That justifies ten seconds to plug it in. It’s saving me £3/day. That’s over £1,000 a year! Not to be sniffed at surely.
Extend that to pure EVs and savings are potentially huge compared to £1.30/L for fuel.
If you need to do long distances then EVs are not there yet. But, push comes to shove, hire a car if you need to for occasional use.

Hybrids are a fantastic compromise though. Not perfect, but, a step in the right direction.
Yes, the Electric only distance on my 330e has dropped a little. But, even with a ludicrous claim by BMW of 26 miles electric distance I often get 30+ electric miles on a days driving of 150 miles. The additional distance you get from energy recovery is very surprising.
Despite having a smaller fuel tank, I’m still getting 550 miles between refills.

My 2L hybrid is just as fast as most of our Zs except the Ms. It’s a BMW. It drives like a BMW. My Z4 does become quicker at 5k rpm in second gear. But, the 330e has 80hp the instant I touch the accelerator - then, as the gearbox drops a cog or two then the engine kicks in too. Despite additional weight, it makes for a quick car.
I am getting 65mpg on 15k miles per year with 25% electric miles.
Pure EV is different. There are no affordable pure EV or hybrid sports cars yet. But there will be. EVs and hybrids are daily use vehicles.

yes there is the cost of production. Both monetary and the issues around Mining for Lithium. That’s a major issue. But, progress will be made.
Electricity generation another - but, centralised generation is still cleaner and more efficient than ICEs.

Yes, there is still a case for some vehicles capable of doing vast distances quickly. But, to generalise that all cars need to be capable of that isn’t true.
We have to make changes. We have to progress. For the sake of our kids and grandchildren.

In a few years, fuel cells will be here. Different issues, yes. But that is where progress will be.

Hands up everyone who is saying they don’t want an EV.
Of those :-
Hands up all those who said they’d never own a mobile phone.
Hands up those that still listen to the Light Program.
Hands up all those that still listen to 45rpm singles on their record player.
Hands up those people who said they’d never ever drive an oil burner.

I rest my case m’lud.
Embrace progress or be left behind. Try it.

EVs and especially hybrids don’t have to be boring. Different - yes. Difficult to live with. No!
 
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I think my next daily is likely to be EV or hybrid at least and current favourite is a Model 3. I think the 250 miles range will take me anywhere I need to go with minimal hassle. I stop regularly on long journeys for breaks anyway.
Despite the higher initial cost the running is so much cheaper.

All that said I am as interested in EV's as I am mobile phones, which is zero. An EV will only ever be a tool because they are for me as exciting as the blue carpet my office chair is on. Doesn't every office have blue carpet tiles?
 
I think my next daily is likely to be EV or hybrid at least and current favourite is a Model 3. I think the 250 miles range will take me anywhere I need to go with minimal hassle. I stop regularly on long journeys for breaks anyway.
Despite the higher initial cost the running is so much cheaper.

All that said I am as interested in EV's as I am mobile phones, which is zero. An EV will only ever be a tool because they are for me as exciting as the blue carpet my office chair is on. Doesn't every office have blue carpet tiles?
Got an ex colleague who now has a model 3. Been meaning to go and have a look. Not a looker in itself tbh. Handling is not the top of the curve either. It does a job - and does it very well. But technology wise light years ahead of most others. Played with a model X a few years ago. Very impressed.

Couldn’t tell you the colour of the (old) office carpet. It does a job.
 
Got an ex colleague who now has a model 3. Been meaning to go and have a look. Not a looker in itself tbh. Handling is not the top of the curve either. It does a job - and does it very well. But technology wise light years ahead of most others. Played with a model X a few years ago. Very impressed.

Couldn’t tell you the colour of the (old) office carpet. It does a job.
A colleague at work has one. In fact there are now two with them but one has become a bit of a pal now I guess because of it. He took me out in it and I actually felt the handling was good. He certainly went around a roundabout a good speed and it stuck like glue. I found that more surprising than the quiet acceleration (which I would get bored with rather quickly as I gave up traffic light GP's about 35 years ago).

It really is remarkable and would have been a better (if more expensive) buy than the Mercedes CLA I bought instead.
 
Current cars will still be on the roads - there’s no doubt about that.
It will take massive incentives will change that. Politics will get in the way of that.
New cars will be all but entirely EV of one kind or another.

Going to be a bit controversial - yes, there are rare circumstances when you need a recharge quickly, but, your cars spend 95%+ of their time standing idle. My car is fully charged every morning. Just needs a very small change in mindset to plug in every night - more in a moment
For pure EVs, you’ll typically get several days use before needing to recharge.
If you may have to drive a distance beyond the range in one journey without prior notice then a pure EV isn’t the right choice for you.

With the right capacity, electric cars are fast. Really fast.
Despite the initial cost, electric miles can cost about 10% of ice miles. That justifies ten seconds to plug it in. It’s saving me £3/day. That’s over £1,000 a year! Not to be sniffed at surely.
Extend that to pure EVs and savings are potentially huge compared to £1.30/L for fuel.
If you need to do long distances then EVs are not there yet. But, push comes to shove, hire a car if you need to for occasional use.

Hybrids are a fantastic compromise though. Not perfect, but, a step in the right direction.
Yes, the Electric only distance on my 330e has dropped a little. But, even with a ludicrous claim by BMW of 26 miles electric distance I often get 30+ electric miles on a days driving of 150 miles. The additional distance you get from energy recovery is very surprising.
Despite having a smaller fuel tank, I’m still getting 550 miles between refills.

My 2L hybrid is just as fast as most of our Zs except the Ms. It’s a BMW. It drives like a BMW. My Z4 does become quicker at 5k rpm in second gear. But, the 330e has 80hp the instant I touch the accelerator - then, as the gearbox drops a cog or two then the engine kicks in too. Despite additional weight, it makes for a quick car.
I am getting 65mpg on 15k miles per year with 25% electric miles.
Pure EV is different. There are no affordable pure EV or hybrid sports cars yet. But there will be. EVs and hybrids are daily use vehicles.

yes there is the cost of production. Both monetary and the issues around Mining for Lithium. That’s a major issue. But, progress will be made.
Electricity generation another - but, centralised generation is still cleaner and more efficient than ICEs.

Yes, there is still a case for some vehicles capable of doing vast distances quickly. But, to generalise that all cars need to be capable of that isn’t true.
We have to make changes. We have to progress. For the sake of our kids and grandchildren.

In a few years, fuel cells will be here. Different issues, yes. But that is where progress will be.

Hands up everyone who is saying they don’t want an EV.
Of those :-
Hands up all those who said they’d never own a mobile phone.
Hands up those that still listen to the Light Program.
Hands up all those that still listen to 45rpm singles on their record player.
Hands up those people who said they’d never ever drive an oil burner.

I rest my case m’lud.
Embrace progress or be left behind. Try it.

EVs and especially hybrids don’t have to be boring. Different - yes. Difficult to live with. No!



Some very interesting points here. ICE vehicles will be around for a while yet, including diesels. There are many many people who cannot afford a new EV or hybrid and will carry on with their old ICE cars because they have no choice.

Without doubt EV technology is improving at a considerable rate. Battery technology and battery management are crucial to this. However, the elephant in the room is the need for the rare minerals such as lithium to produce EV batteries. Unless and until man can develop a carbon neutral way of mining, shipping and refining such minerals then the exponentially increasing demand for them will put a strain on the environment. Now this may well be less than the environmental effect of ICE vehicles, but it still counts. I wonder how long it will be before there are questions raised about how much lithium is left in the mines. Cynical? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet against it.

There are also the end of life considerations. EVs have not yet been through one full lifecycle, so the true end of life costs and environmental effects are not yet fully understood. Of course progress will be made, as it always has. The automotive industry is ploughing millions of dollars into EVs, so they will become better over time.

My nephew has worked all his career in petrochem/refining. A very bright lad. He readily acknowledges that carbon fuels have had their day, but during a recent conversation he told me that the government is sponsoring significant effort into developing a hydrogen infrastructure and he is of the opinion that hydrogen will be the fuel of the future and that EVs are a stop gap technology.

Having said all that, I have to say that I am considering an EV or more likely a self-charging hybrid as my next daily driver.
 
Some very interesting points here. ICE vehicles will be around for a while yet, including diesels. There are many many people who cannot afford a new EV or hybrid and will carry on with their old ICE cars because they have no choice.

Without doubt EV technology is improving at a considerable rate. Battery technology and battery management are crucial to this. However, the elephant in the room is the need for the rare minerals such as lithium to produce EV batteries. Unless and until man can develop a carbon neutral way of mining, shipping and refining such minerals then the exponentially increasing demand for them will put a strain on the environment. Now this may well be less than the environmental effect of ICE vehicles, but it still counts. I wonder how long it will be before there are questions raised about how much lithium is left in the mines. Cynical? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet against it.

There are also the end of life considerations. EVs have not yet been through one full lifecycle, so the true end of life costs and environmental effects are not yet fully understood. Of course progress will be made, as it always has. The automotive industry is ploughing millions of dollars into EVs, so they will become better over time.

My nephew has worked all his career in petrochem/refining. A very bright lad. He readily acknowledges that carbon fuels have had their day, but during a recent conversation he told me that the government is sponsoring significant effort into developing a hydrogen infrastructure and he is of the opinion that hydrogen will be the fuel of the future and that EVs are a stop gap technology.

Having said all that, I have to say that I am considering an EV or more likely a self-charging hybrid as my next daily driver.
Pure EV's simply do not have the resources for longevity, agreed, stop-gap. The infrastructure for pure EV's is biblical, 10's of thousands of cables from rows of terraced houses out across pavements?
 
Whilst I accept that when change comes it comes quick I just can't see that 70% of cars will be electric in 9 years. Far to much money in oil, where would the chancellor get his massive cheque from every week if fuel is barely being used?

I agree, 9 years seems awfully quick. Mind you, if the take up of electric cars really does gather pace, then I reckon the tax revenue from oil based fuels will have to be replaced by a tax on the electricity used to charge them via differential tarrifs managed with smart meters.
 
I agree, 9 years seems awfully quick. Mind you, if the take up of electric cars really does gather pace, then I reckon the tax revenue from oil based fuels will have to be replaced by a tax on the electricity used to charge them via differential tarrifs managed with smart meters.
Yup. A massive gap in revenue, needs to come from somewhere.
 
I am going to invent a petrol powered washing machine.
 
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