"Sold as a trade sale"
- Thread starter Tfp
- Start date
And the builder bought materials.
I am amazed you say car traders are working for years and not VAT registered.
A few years ago I dealt with a company , who when I paid them I added VAT onto the account. They returned the cheque to our company. Phone and they said that part of the company was not VAT registered,they confirmed this in writing. A couple of years later we were contacted by the HMRC fraud squad and called to meeting. It turned out the company had been involved in a large fraud that had resulted in the HMRC being defrauded out of in excess of £1m. I pointed out that I had originally paid them VAT and gave them the letter they issued saying they were not entitled to VAT. The HMRC said they had been very clever not getting involved with the VAT who would have caught them within 20 weeks ,whereas the HMRC took over 2 years.
Back to cars ,I was involved in a contract inLondon, where we were next door to a secondhand car plot. I still "admire" the way they could transform the roughest old dog into a fantastic looking car. I went in his office once and he seemed to me to be making up new service book for the car.
On the other hand ourZ3 came from a small dealer (semi retired ex Dealer Principle lasted group)who worked from a very nice house and kept the cars stored in a barn. Sold/view by appointment only ,I would happily deal with him any time in future. He actually would not let us have car until he had done a couple of jobs,and would not even take a deposit.
He even phoned a couple of times in following weeks to make sure all was well,over a £3500 car.
I am amazed you say car traders are working for years and not VAT registered.
A few years ago I dealt with a company , who when I paid them I added VAT onto the account. They returned the cheque to our company. Phone and they said that part of the company was not VAT registered,they confirmed this in writing. A couple of years later we were contacted by the HMRC fraud squad and called to meeting. It turned out the company had been involved in a large fraud that had resulted in the HMRC being defrauded out of in excess of £1m. I pointed out that I had originally paid them VAT and gave them the letter they issued saying they were not entitled to VAT. The HMRC said they had been very clever not getting involved with the VAT who would have caught them within 20 weeks ,whereas the HMRC took over 2 years.
Back to cars ,I was involved in a contract inLondon, where we were next door to a secondhand car plot. I still "admire" the way they could transform the roughest old dog into a fantastic looking car. I went in his office once and he seemed to me to be making up new service book for the car.
On the other hand ourZ3 came from a small dealer (semi retired ex Dealer Principle lasted group)who worked from a very nice house and kept the cars stored in a barn. Sold/view by appointment only ,I would happily deal with him any time in future. He actually would not let us have car until he had done a couple of jobs,and would not even take a deposit.
He even phoned a couple of times in following weeks to make sure all was well,over a £3500 car.
I seen far too much of that, in fact my job nowadays is to spot such "made up" histories.
Crooked dealers even have company stamps made up, obviously not their own company.
I always tell people to take an expert along when buying a car, even from a dealer.
So many cars have been sold on PCP with mileage limits over the last few years, so many get clocked back, especially expensive vehicle such as Range Rovers.
I've even had cards left on my windscreen at auctions offering "mileage correction service"
But as you say, there are some proper dealers out there, some one selling from their own home would be mindful of a customer coming back creating hell so will try their hardest to do the job right.
Yes
The dealer in the plot in London I believe had a variety of stamps and loads of blank books , I saw those
I have actually had trouble with selling car to a main dealer ,a few days later I got the sales director on the phone complaining the mileage on the car I had part ex,d had the wrong mileage on it . I explained that he look at the order form I signed in his dealership ,where I had written very clearly that the car was on its third speedo and I did not know what the true mileage was. Never heard back from him
Me to.
I quizzed a HMRC inspector/investigator about how they can get away with it for so long.
The reply was "if they're under our radar we don't know they exist" "if they've never registered we don't know they're there"
My reply was "why don't you go round visiting every car sales site to see who's there?"
Their reply "oh no, we don't do that"
My next question "why don't you act on information given to you?"
Their reply " we have files full of letters/info received from people" "we will only act on them if they contain evidence/proper proof"
So that's why they get away with it for so long.
Oh dear, I think the sales person will be in trouble with their boss.
I should have said car was 3 years old speedo said about 150,000 but had likely done over 200,000 I had it from new ,and was trading it in for 2 new Citroens
When working I did about 140000/150000 in a car in two years
When working I did about 140000/150000 in a car in two years
Wow, that's a big mileage, how did the cars stand up?
Many repair bills along the way?
I ran a Mondeo TDCi once, it was great until about 110,000 miles when it started costing boat loads of money on repairs.
Best ever was a BMW 335d. Did 142000 in two years ,apart from service items only had a belt replaced. The 525d had lots of trouble in first 15000 miles but perfect after, up to 151,000. Worst. Jag X type fully loaded but nothing worked. In the end I just settled on BMW . The one I had trouble on changing was a Volvo 240 , found Volve 850R quite good ,but back to BMW
Interesting stuff.
My mate, who imports wine, has just had a visit from Customs Officers who presented him with a bill for 12K.
I am not an accountant so I am not going to pretend I understand the following.
When he picks up wine in Germany, direct from the vineyard, he pays cash including VAT.
When he sells it over here his price includes VAT, so the German and Dutch government both get their share.
He also declares his import using the delivery paper work showing that he has paid VAT in Germany.
The only thing I can think of is that the German is cooking the books?
My mate, who imports wine, has just had a visit from Customs Officers who presented him with a bill for 12K.
I am not an accountant so I am not going to pretend I understand the following.
When he picks up wine in Germany, direct from the vineyard, he pays cash including VAT.
When he sells it over here his price includes VAT, so the German and Dutch government both get their share.
He also declares his import using the delivery paper work showing that he has paid VAT in Germany.
The only thing I can think of is that the German is cooking the books?
Oh dear, I think you may be right.
Maybe the German chap destroys his copy of the invoice?
Or should there also be import duty?
Stuff coming into the UK is subject to import duty, I think on wine it's £1 per bottle.
Anything else it's 11% import duty plus Vat for the UK.
I'm no expert, but I used to import cars from Japan. 11% import duty on the price of the car in Japan, plus the cost of shipping, then the Vat is added.
If he has all the invoices showing he paid the Vat then surely it's the German chap who has deceived the Vat man?
Get him/her to get some legal advice quickly.
And another thing he told me a while back, the vineyard owners wife, who does the accounts, sends him reminders that some invoices have not been paid...!!
He has been doing business with this vineyard for years and never had problems before and told her he always pays here husband cash.
And I am witness to this, as I go on most trips with him.
Think the old German takes his wad of cash and stops off at the Reeperbahn in Hamburg on his way home......
He has been doing business with this vineyard for years and never had problems before and told her he always pays here husband cash.
And I am witness to this, as I go on most trips with him.
Think the old German takes his wad of cash and stops off at the Reeperbahn in Hamburg on his way home......
And another thing he told me a while back, the vineyard owners wife, who does the accounts, sends him reminders that some invoices have not been paid...!!
He has been doing business with this vineyard for years and never had problems before and told her he always pays here husband cash.
And I am witness to this, as I go on most trips with him.
Think the old German takes his wad of cash and stops off at the Reeperbahn in Hamburg on his way home......
Is it the German Vat people asking for 12k or the Dutch Vat?
I'd guess you're correct, the husband has been pocketing the cash, maybe even disposing of invoices.
Sounds to me that if it's the German Vat people presenting the bill they are chasing the wrong person.
You will be a handy witness if that's the case.
There are crooks in every business Mike.
Tony.
Tony.