Really, Why?

t-tony

t-tony

The Legend
Deceased
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#ZedShed
Joined
Dec 31, 2013
Points
226
Location
Torksey Lock,Lincoln, England
Model of Z
E89 Z4 23i Auto
One car catches fire in a multi storey car park in Liverpool and it destroys 1,400 other vehicles. WHY?

Tony.

ps. Does that mean the heat will have caused the building to be demolished?
 
I can't see why that would allow be destroyed. Surely some of them would be ok
 
t-tony said:
One car catches fire in a multi storey car park in Liverpool and it destroys 1,400 other vehicles. WHY?

Tony.

ps. Does that mean the heat will have caused the building to be demolished?
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All the others were filled with bales of straw.. horsey show.
 
That’s going to be one big insurance claim then too.
 
Multi story car parks are now off my list, along with supermarket car parks, road side and shopping centres. Hope no Z3s were parked there:(
 
That was one horrendous fire. In different circumstances it could have lead to a loss of life.

I would imagine it spread due to petrol tanks exploding and starting a chain reaction in a small space. Possibly fanned by a breeze being channelled through the narrow floors. Still a bit strange it went between floors.

I'm sure there will be an investigation with lessons learned. If it's that easy it's a wonder it's never happened before.

Not beyond reason insurance premiums will rise because of this. 1,400 * let's say £10,000 per car is £14m.
 
gookah said:
I would think those cars averaged more than £10k each. There would have been a lot of high end cars / 4x4s there
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I agree and it was possibly at the conservative end of things although I would imagine there were plenty of cars worth under £10k too. It’s a lot of money anyhow and premiums may rise, when was the last time an insurance company took anything like this on the chin!

And unlike a water-logged ferry, I doubt there is much salvage value here.
 
pgunter said:
That’s going to be one big insurance claim then too.
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I suspect initially it will be 1400 individual insurance claims --- I suspect the car park owner will just say you parked in my car park , I take your money but you carry all the risk.
Interesting if any liability was found on the car that started it all, believed to be a Land Rover.
The bigger claim could result if the structure is condemned ,as a lot of the concrete will have suffered major damage. I recall when a commercial hit a support column , and went on fire, on Spaghetti Junction many years ago
Only winners likely to be the Claim Company's and Lawyers.
 
An "old Land Rover" as quoted on news programmes. I couldn't tell from the CCTV still pic what it was.
 
The more I look at the pictures the more terrifying this incident is.

The fire has ‘eaten’ the floor concrete exposing the steel infrastructure which has distorted in the heat.

You imagine concrete is more fire resistant don’t you? That is one evil fire.

I have to say I don’t really know if the fire service are doing themselves any favours raising the lack of fire sprinklers. If it was that obvious then surely they have a responsibility to previously lobby for legislation or should be refusing to issue fire certificates if they are unhappy. Is that over simplifying it?

I think this one is going to run and run with secondary stories and lessons learned. I’ll be surprised if it doesn’t come out that something was destroyed in the fire that shouldn’t be there. “I’d just withdrawn my £40k savings which I’d left in the boot until the next day”.
 
It could turn into another Grenfell Tower and that is not meaning any disrespect to the poor folks who perished in that horror. Im just wondering about the fire retarding systems which apparently weren't there or did not work. How many more of these car parks are out there?

Tony.
 
t-tony said:
It could turn into another Grenfell Tower and that is not meaning any disrespect to the poor folks who perished in that horror. Im just wondering about the fire retarding systems which apparently weren't there or did not work. How many more of these car parks are out there?

Tony.
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That's exactly what I'm thinking. Have just been reading about the woman who left her 4 dogs in the car and they had to be rescued...
 
mrscalex said:
when was the last time an insurance company took anything like this on the chin!
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Remember the dockside fire in China a few years back when all the new jag/land-rover were destroyed that was a big claim carried by one Insurance company.

Glad no one was injured though in Liverpool.
 
Just love the terms used. Vaporised the floor..

I would expect the sheer heat twisted the metal frame which in turn broke the concrete from the support. At that heat the expansion alone would have made chunks come loose. Also cooling one side would cause it to warp. From a building perspective, you can see the supporting, thicker beams still intact. I would be more concerned about the holiday hutches you are all booking in to as they will have very little of the design strength we have to meet in the UK. All built in a rush during the building boom.
 
The rc. columns can be seen to hVe suffered damage , the concrete has blown off exposing the rebar,which I suspect has suffered major damage. Only. A full structural servy will give a full picture, but I go back to the damage on spaghetti junction that appeared a lot less
 
So the concrete blows out in chunks due to the heat/expansion of steel rather than gets consumed by fire?
 
The cover on the rebar is generally 50mm but I have seen columns where the cover has been reduced to 35mm. I have seen normal pcc units rejected by Network Rail due to too little rebar cover, and it resulted in a major contract delay. I finished up very experienced in use of a cover meter.In these columns the rebar may have had sufficient cover to protect it until the concrete broke away , or it the heat may have effect the rebar and blow the concrete away.

While the above comments are looking at the columns another pres released photo seems to indicate very little damage to the decking on another floor although the underside must have been effect by the flames

While my experience was in construction I have seen ,many years ago, some work for a chemical plant testing the steel members ,with intumesant paint , surrounding it in fire resistant boarding ,different thicknesses, and other means to reduce the risk of serious fire damage. They also considered the wind effect of the building design to see if they could reduce the risk of fire spreading. Looking now it seems that wind effect we often feel inside an open multi story car park would assist in the fire spreading rapidly.
 
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