New car sales declining

[Tilly]

New cars sales are declining. Many reasons are given; I can tell you why I won't be buying new again. For my 70th birthday I was going to replace my 5 touring which is coming up to 9 years old. However, a few days ago in town an oncoming car coming around a tight corner, not dangerously I may add, necessitated me moving over closer to the kerb. Crash bang into a large pothole. It has been there for months but this time I could not avoid it. After two days I picked up the car from the garage after paying a bill for over £500. Two new front springs ( nearside one had broken) alignment and fitting. Apparently that was the fourth car that was in that particular garage this week for damage inflicted by the state of the roads in the town. With the current state of the UK roads I cannot see the reason to buy a new car. Just hope that the ceramic bakes on my other car don't get scratched I'd hate to have to fork out for a replacement. Don't ask the cost I was quoted!!!!!!! Thankfully my wife's Z3 is still intact.

 

[Grumps]

I'm totally with you. New cars frankly are rubbish, all much of a much unless you have deep enough pockets to move above the norm and the roads as you say are in an abismal state. I drive circ of 2000 miles a week, how my spine is still in reasonable order only god knows.

 

[Tfp]

I normally replace my wifes car every two to three years.

Haven't this time for two reasons mostly, her Fabia has a nice four cylinder engine and £20 RFL

The new Fabia has a three cylinder enigine and £140 RFL

The three cylinder just isn't as refined.

I'm also wondering about these new petrol particulate filters, could they be trouble like the diesel ones?

 

[Robert Wiles]

In terms of reliability and longevity, new cars are probably better than they have ever been. We have the Japanese to thank for that. When I first got into cars in the 1970s engines leaked oil, needed regular decoking and it was almost unheard of for a car to reach 100,000 miles. These days the cheapest Dacia Sandero or similar will do that sort of mileage with ease if reasonably well maintained.
Having said that, there are lots of things that I don't like about news cars:-
1) They're too big. For example, a VW Up! is seen as a tiny car these days. In fact it's within a few millimetres the same size as a mark 1 Golf which wasn't seen as a tiny car when it was current. And just look at the size of the latest Ford Mondeo. Car park spaces and domestic garages haven't increased in size to match modern cars.
2) They all look too similar. Take the badges off, for example, a selection of mini SUVs and try to tell them apart.
3) They're difficult to see out of. Thick pillars, small glass area and rounded styling make judging the extremities of new cars a lot harder than it should be. The car makers answer? More weight and complexity in terms of reversing cameras and automatic parking systems.
4) Poor ride quality. I blame the motoring press for this. For years they've tried to convince us that we need a stiifly sprung, tight chassis that turns in like a BTCC racer and laps the Nurburgring quicker than a 1960s F1 car. Manufacturers have duly complied and as a result we're now hampered by overly hard suspension and massive wheels draped in liquorice thin rubber on all but the most basic of new cars. Just what we need for the UK's pothole strewn roads. Cars like the Renault 4 and Citroen 2CV may have had lots of shortcomings, but they had a properly comfortable ride and would take the biggest of potholes in their stride.
5) Too many gadgets. It's illegal to drive whilst using a mobile phone. However, it could be argued that the increasingly complex infotainment and other systems fitted to new cars are equally, if not more, distracting than using a phone.

 

[Grumps]

I normally replace my wifes car every two to three years.

Haven't this time for two reasons mostly, her Fabia has a nice four cylinder engine and £20 RFL

The new Fabia has a three cylinder enigine and £140 RFL

The three cylinder just isn't as refined.

I'm also wondering about these new petrol particulate filters, could they be trouble like the diesel ones?

I've got a 3 cylinder focus Tim that's now down 24k. Springs keep breaking but no other issues as yet.

 

[Grumps]

In terms of reliability and longevity, new cars are probably better than they have ever been. We have the Japanese to thank for that. When I first got into cars in the 1970s engines leaked oil, needed regular decoking and it was almost unheard of to see a car reach 100,000 miles. These days the cheapest Dacia Sandero or similar will do that sort of mileage with ease if reasonably well maintained.
Having said that, there are lots of things that I don't like about news cars:-
1) They're too big. For example, a VW Up! is seen as a tiny car these days. In fact it's within a few millimetres the same size as a mark 1 Golf which wasn't seen as a tiny car when it was current. And just look at the size of the latest Ford Mondeo. Car park spaces and domestic garages have not increased in size to match new cars.
2) They all look too similar. Take the badges off, for example, a selection of mini SUVs and try to tell them apart.
3) They are difficult to see out of. Thick pillars, small glass area and rounded styling make judging the extremities of new cars harder than it should be. The car makers answer? More weight and complexity in terms of reversing cameras and automatic parking systems.
4) Poor ride quality. I blame the motoring press for this. For years they have tried to convince us that we need a stiifly sprung, tight chassis that turns in like a BTCC car and laps the Nurburgring quicker than a 1960s F1 car. Manufacturers have complied and we are now hampered by stiff suspension and massive wheels draped in liquorice thin rubber on all but the most basic of new cars. Just what we need for the UK's pothole strewn roads....
5) Too many gadgets. It's illegal to drive whilst using a mobile phone. However, it could be said that the increasingly complex infotainment and other systems fitted to new cars are equally, if not more, distracting than using a phone.

A lot or sense made here Robert.

 

[Redline]

In terms of reliability and longevity, new cars are probably better than they have ever been. We have the Japanese to thank for that. When I first got into cars in the 1970s engines leaked oil, needed regular decoking and it was almost unheard of to see a car reach 100,000 miles. These days the cheapest Dacia Sandero or similar will do that sort of mileage with ease if reasonably well maintained.
Having said that, there are lots of things that I don't like about news cars:-
1) They're too big. For example, a VW Up! is seen as a tiny car these days. In fact it's within a few millimetres the same size as a mark 1 Golf which wasn't seen as a tiny car when it was current. And just look at the size of the latest Ford Mondeo. Car park spaces and domestic garages have not increased in size to match new cars.
2) They all look too similar. Take the badges off, for example, a selection of mini SUVs and try to tell them apart.
3) They are difficult to see out of. Thick pillars, small glass area and rounded styling make judging the extremities of new cars harder than it should be. The car makers answer? More weight and complexity in terms of reversing cameras and automatic parking systems.
4) Poor ride quality. I blame the motoring press for this. For years they have tried to convince us that we need a stiifly sprung, tight chassis that turns in like a BTCC car and laps the Nurburgring quicker than a 1960s F1 car. Manufacturers have complied and we are now hampered by stiff suspension and massive wheels draped in liquorice thin rubber on all but the most basic of new cars. Just what we need for the UK's pothole strewn roads. Cars like the Renault 4 and Citroen 2CV had lots of shortcomings, but they had a properly comfortable ride.
5) Too many gadgets. It's illegal to drive whilst using a mobile phone. However, it could be said that the increasingly complex infotainment and other systems fitted to new cars are equally, if not more, distracting than using a phone.

On the last point - amongst all that technology many cars now sport voice recognition that you can use to control things without having to move your hands from the wheel. That of course presumes one thing. That you can get a word in edgewise

 

[Robert Wiles]

I normally replace my wifes car every two to three years.

Haven't this time for two reasons mostly, her Fabia has a nice four cylinder engine and £20 RFL

The new Fabia has a three cylinder enigine and £140 RFL

The three cylinder just isn't as refined.

I'm also wondering about these new petrol particulate filters, could they be trouble like the diesel ones?

I bought a VW Up! with the 3 cylinder turbocharged engine. I have to say that it's a great little engine. It's really quite nippy, does around 55mpg in give and take driving and will happily cruise at 80ish on the motorway. Apart from the offbeat thrum on acceleration, you wouldn't know it's a 3 pot.
I share your concern about particulate filters, having been badly bitten by dpf issues on an S Type Jaguar. Hopefully the manufacturers will have learned from their collective problems with diesel particulate filters.

 

[Robert Wiles]

On the last point - amongst all that technology many cars now sport voice recognition that you can use to control things without having to move your hands from the wheel. That of course presumes one thing. That you can get a word in edgewise

Yeah, I've had a couple of cars with voice recognition, a Ford Fiesta and a Jaguar S Type (also Ford technology). Now I'll admit that I have a bit of a hybrid accent having lived in London, rural Kent and Essex, but in both cars the voice recognition steadfastly refused to recognise most of my voice commands despite the system being developed at Dunton which is about 15 miles from where I've lived for the last 30 years....

 

[Slam]

Not to mention the uncertainty with brexshit and the hammering over diesel gate with people losing stupid amounts on their diesel cars.

 

[Tfp]

Another reason for not buying new again.

Today I had another rubbish experience with a main dealer service manager.

Are they so hard up nowadays that they have to try anything to get more cash from people?

Won't be darkening their door again, and I've bought three cars from them.

 

[gookah]

Things are now 'value engineered' unlike in the past.
Previously there would be what was described as over-engineering, it was actually what was needed on occasion.

Now things are made to cope with a standard set of conditions, and anything over and above that demand, will cause failure.
However it enables a bigger margin to be made and is all about profit.
Not much is now built to retain a factor of safety.

I am half considering buying a brand new 1 series, to replace my 6 year old 1 series coupe,
But I can't make my mind up whether its worth paying so much more, when really there is nothing wrong with the old one., and I can get a cracking deal on the new car.

that probably speaks volumes because before, I would not dare visit a dealers because I knew i would come away with a new car. I have been to 4 dealers now and not bought one.... for me that's unheard of.
They just don't seem as solid anymore.

I was also wondering wether to go with petrol or diesel, but diesel sales are down 20% (for a reason)
OK fuel consumption is a lot better, but will it be half the value of a petrol one in 4 years time if I want to sell it on?
I wonder if I should even touch a new diesel with a barge pole nowadays

 

[Grumps]

Another reason for not buying new again.

Today I had another rubbish experience with a main dealer service manager.

Are they so hard up nowadays that they have to try anything to get more cash from people?

Won't be darkening their door again, and I've bought three cars from them.

When I worked for Merc 2008-2011 it was nothing less than embarrassing to listen to the guys in service trying to sell parts that didn't need replacing. "Well your brake pads are 60% worn so we would strongly suggest replacing them" is the other 40% broken then!! So many people with that sort of car have no clue and trust the dealers to do the right thing. So pleased I got out the trade, I'm my experience as a customer I've not met a straight main dealer in 10 years.

 

[Synclare]

I just stick with running old bangers like my £150 2008 Focus diesel and save the planet in the process. My escort van, again £150 and diesel, did over 100,000 miles and apart from a rear wheel bearing cost me nothing, not even a cambelt when I sold It on. God I miss it, so damn useful. Hey it could even become fashionable running around in old nails, Granada Coupe, Dolly Sprints, Cavalier, Rover 2000,Fiat Strada, Marinas . . . Mmmm perhaps not!! Would make the drive to work more interesting. Try standing on a motorway bridge and see how long before something interesting comes along - sun would be setting before you saw something.

 

[Tfp]

I'm my experience as a customer I've not met a straight main dealer in 10 years.

I thought I'd found a decent one.

Now they want £100 diagnosis fee for a car that's still under warranty.

I guess with car sales struggling they are falling back on the service dept.

Audi are now over £100 per hour labour.

 

[Ianmc]

Having reduced my "fleet" of cars in recent years and generally doing less than 100 miles each week now (apart from holidays/weekend breaks), I have no need of a "new car". Both my cars are now 22 years old (1997 Z3 and 1997 BMW E36 convertible) and are part of the family. Neither depreciate; I can do much of the maintenance work and enjoy looking after them. Total capital employed is less than £5K.
My local Hyundai garage has cars on the forecourt priced at £20K to £45K, none of which would I want to be seen dead in, let alone invest the capital and take the massive depreciation. If a company wishes to provide a new car as a tool for your job, well and good. Private buyers would be mad to buy new, unless the "new plate syndrome" has to be satisfied. If money is not a consideration, there are some cracking well restored/maintained classics that would make fantastic daily drivers.

 

[Slam]

Having reduced my "fleet" of cars in recent years and generally doing less than 100 miles each week now (apart from holidays/weekend breaks), I have no need of a "new car". Both my cars are now 22 years old (1997 Z3 and 1997 BMW E36 convertible) and are part of the family. Neither depreciate; I can do much of the maintenance work and enjoy looking after them. Total capital employed is less than £5K.
My local Hyundai garage has cars on the forecourt priced at £20K to £45K, none of which would I want to be seen dead in, let alone invest the capital and take the massive depreciation. If a company wishes to provide a new car as a tool for your job, well and good. Private buyers would be mad to buy new, unless the "new plate syndrome" has to be satisfied. If money is not a consideration, there are some cracking well restored/maintained classics that would make fantastic daily drivers.

I have never owned a new car and to be honest never even considered one. I personally have always bought older interesting cars rather than new boring affordable cars. The type of cars I like I could never afford new and I end up with them eventually. What I mean is I like to pay for my car there and then and not be paying for it for the next 5 years

 

[abh29]

Another reason for not buying new again.

Today I had another rubbish experience with a main dealer service manager.

Are they so hard up nowadays that they have to try anything to get more cash from people?

Won't be darkening their door again, and I've bought three cars from them.

Last year we decided to change our X1 for a new one.
Called in the local dealer ,from who have bought other new BMWs over the last 20 years.
We wanted to try a car with sport seats fitted with lumber support,but unfortunately they could not find one in the demonstrators within the group.
We pointed out they had a used car in another depot with the seats we wanted and did we need to travel to try that one out , comments were it was up to us.
We travel the 70 miles and tried the seats out , in fact we liked the car , except for two issues it was as we would have ordered.
It had done 2000 miles so we bought it.
As our local branch was so relaxed about us going to deal elsewhere it appeared to is that selling new car was so easy they were not prepared to go beyond what was in the showroom.

 

[Grumps]

I thought I'd found a decent one.

Now they want £100 diagnosis fee for a car that's still under warranty.

I guess with car sales struggling they are falling back on the service dept.

Audi are now over £100 per hour labour.

Service has always been the main income for a main dealer. Margains on sales has become less and less over the last 10 years. When I started in 2003 we looked at £1500 on average stuff, now days it's usually under a grand.

 

[Salty sea dog]

With modern cars now you are just an operator - it has to be said that with a zed at least you really feel it’s a drivers car.