My Diary Entry today simply said 'Bugger'.

[Toby]

Quote for the next speed awareness course - technically correct

L J K Setright

"Speed does not kill. Speed saves. It saves life by saving time, which amounts to the same thing."

 

[Pingu]

The only thing that I learned was the correct way the traffic lights work...

RED - Stop
AMBER - Stop if safe to do so
GREEN - Proceed if safe to do so

Note, the last one - it is not just Proceed. Many people have been killed by others who jumped the red light to their left , or right.

I was there for jumping a red (an amber gamble that went wrong) - so I ACTUALLY put others in danger.

When I said this was only a money grabbing exercise that was managed by companies whose directors were ex-chief constables, and I was happy about it. He asked why I was happy. I said it was because I was given the same penalty as someone who was doing 34 along an empty dual carriageway with no pedestrians in sight. I should have been banned for dangerous driving, but it was only a red light camera, so nobody knew that I was doing 110 in a 30. I also said it wasn't true about the 110, but it could have been.

 

[Pingu]

Pity the SAC isn't in person, you could get more reaction that way. When I did one was told in no uncertain terms if you didn't actively engage in the discussions and subjects you would be failed and get done for the points.

The course leader made the statement 'speed kills'. I actively engaged by asking if that was the case how come with 1 exception, the space shuttle travelling at 17,000mph didn't kill everyone on board, as that is massively faster than the 70mph max limit on UK roads? The 1 exception was when they let the girl drive the space shuttle!!

Further, if going above 70 would kill you in the UK. Then you drive at 70 down to the ferry, cross the channel and drive on the right in a RHD car at 85, any slower you get fined for going too slowly, but you don't die!!

There was an old black and white film showing jam sandwiches crashing into plastic cones to illustrate how speeding makes you lose control and crash, but modern cars have ABS that allows you to steer under braking and avoid the cones!!

Another was about a bus stopping in a 30 limit to allow passengers to alight. What speed should you drive at? Why the f would you overtake a bus letting passengers alight??

Loads of other idiotic stuff was discussed with lots of challenge. So much the lecturers were glad it was over at the end. Still they got paid, whereas the attendees had to pay. All about the money.

I was once told, "speed doesn't kill, proximity kills"

 

[the Nefyn cat]

Has nobody else suggested that these SACs provide employment for those that can't do a real job? Ok, I'll do it for you.

 

[Pond]

Has nobody else suggested that these SACs provide employment for those that can't do a real job? Ok, I'll do it for you.

That list would be so long these days, it would crash the servers!

I heard (but still can't believe) that "influencer" and "you tuber" are actually recognised job titles.

 

[the Nefyn cat]

One of these days the bubble will burst. Just got to be patient.

 

[Pond]

I was there for jumping a red (an amber gamble that went wrong)

I got a fine through the post for that about 25 years ago. A lovely low resolution picture of my little van half way across the junction accompanied the fine letter. Slam dunk fine.

I argued it and it was cancelled before it went to court. The junction was on the A40 going out of Oxford. Dual carriageway with a 50mph limit. A new park and ride had been built so the junction was new. The 50 limit only covered the junction area.

My argument (which was legitimate) was that I was too close to the junction when the amber light came on for me to stop safely at 50mph. I also said my van was full of equipment (it was empty) which would have made stopping that quickly even more dangerous.

I have also been clamped twice and never paid a penny to get them released. One place I threatened to call the Police because they were effectively kidnapping me, as I couldn't leave. I told them I had no way to pay the fine on me (I lied). They released the clamp with the right hump!

I used to enjoy arguing with people over things like these. Not anymore. Too old to be bothered.

 

[Mazza]

Next time I go through a village that has ‘the neighbourhood gestapo with a speed camera’ out on the prowl ,
I intend to stop and ask to see the calibration cert !!!

 

[Duncodin]

Under Construction and Use regulations manufacturers were allowed a 10% limit on speedometer accuracy readings. Guess that was before electronic speedos.
Assuming that to still be the case, can you legitimately get away doing 33mph in a 30 limit?
Anyone know at what speed over the limit the fine 'kicks in'?

The myth is that the speed traps are set at 10% +2. So in a 30 zone you'd get zapped at 35. As I did the last time I got done. Coming out of Cardiff. Dual Carriageway, everyone speeding up a bit. Flash. 30 still in force.

Time before that. Also in cardiff. Sliproad down to a dual carriage way. Increasing speed to join the dual carriageway. Flash. Me doing less than 40. 30 limit still in force.

So. Me not happy about either of those two events.

Only other time I got done it was a fair cop. Doing 40 in a 30 zone. Nice safe wide road. Everyone going too fast. Mobile speed trap. But I knew the limit and I was speeding. Slap my legs.

 

[Pingu]

I got a fine through the post for that about 25 years ago. A lovely low resolution picture of my little van half way across the junction accompanied the fine letter. Slam dunk fine.

I argued it and it was cancelled before it went to court. The junction was on the A40 going out of Oxford. Dual carriageway with a 50mph limit. A new park and ride had been built so the junction was new. The 50 limit only covered the junction area.

My argument (which was legitimate) was that I was too close to the junction when the amber light came on for me to stop safely at 50mph. I also said my van was full of equipment (it was empty) which would have made stopping that quickly even more dangerous.

I have also been clamped twice and never paid a penny to get them released. One place I threatened to call the Police because they were effectively kidnapping me, as I couldn't leave. I told them I had no way to pay the fine on me (I lied). They released the clamp with the right hump!

I used to enjoy arguing with people over things like these. Not anymore. Too old to be bothered.

I told the guy that the three second amber at 70 isn't long enough. It takes longer than three seconds to stop from 70.

He made the very valid point that I should reduce speed so that I can stop within three seconds when approaching traffic lights. Come to think of it, this is another good thing that I came away with.

I actually quite enjoyed the course, and I think that everyone should do it. Perhaps once every fifteen years. That would be three refreshers between passing at 20 and getting your eyes tested at 70.

It should be a proper course, not a blah, blah, all speed is bad course. Ours was actually quite good, and he did play the game by telling us the official line, but he also told us of his own experiences, as an advanced police driver, of when he (or someone he was following) hadn't - and the consequences. Many were close calls, but some weren't.

 

[Pingu]

Next time I go through a village that has ‘the neighbourhood gestapo with a speed camera’ out on the prowl ,
I intend to stop and ask to see the calibration cert !!!

They don't need one. That's why you only get a letter of warning.

I'm sure you knew that, anyway.

 

[Pond]

and I think that everyone should do it.

Not for me thanks. The thought of a retired (at about 45) ex copper who is drawing a handsome final salary pension (at the taxpayers' expense) and earning extra money (at the taxpayers' expense) telling me how naughty I have been would probably make me violent these days.

They also tar everyone with the same brush. Everyone is just a 'speeder'. I keep all of my cars in top condition, religiously. All are as good as they come for the road. I also have 42 years of driving experience without ever having a claim, let alone an accident. I drive extremely 'defensively' and always have. I am safer doing 35mph in a 30 than probably the vast majority of the driving public, but I would still just be a 'dangerous speeder'.

I'll take the points, thanks.

 

[Pingu]

Not for me thanks. The thought of a retired (at about 45) ex copper who is drawing a handsome final salary pension (at the taxpayers' expense) and earning extra money (at the taxpayers' expense) telling me how naughty I have been would probably make me violent these days.

They also tar everyone with the same brush. Everyone is just a 'speeder'. I keep all of my cars in top condition, religiously. All are as good as they come for the road. I also have 42 years of driving experience without ever having a claim, let alone an accident. I drive extremely 'defensively' and always have. I am safer doing 35mph in a 30 than probably the vast majority of the driving public, but I would still just be a 'dangerous speeder'.

I'll take the points, thanks.

Not a speed awareness course - an awareness course.

If you have nothing to learn, then teach the course

 

[Caius]

I've done two of the awareness courses in recent years after nearly making it 20 years without any tickets, ach.

The "speed awareness" course was boring and very judgemental about how you shouldn't speed, speeding is instantly bad, you're a terrible human being, etc. Didn't learn anything from it (except maybe how much better than the Highway Code modern cars are at stopping distances.)

The "motorway awareness" course by comparison was really interesting. Goes into the theory (and practice) behind variable speed limits, what its like working on the motorways and how dangerous an environment they are if you're not going with the flow of traffic. There's some questions around the safety aspect of smart motorways and whether its a correct tradeoff compared to what we had previously, but putting that aside it was educational and never really strayed towards "you're a terrible human, how did you end up here" attitude.

Both courses were delivered by the same company, so you'd hope delivered to the same standard. Really eye opening how different the two courses were. Naturally I heard something said by the instructor in the speed course I'd been told differently in the motorway course. Questioning on what evidence that was stated was apparently derailing the conversation and irrelevant to the point. Even more so when I pointed out their own motorway course stated the opposite view.

Money from the courses go into the police budget of whoever sticks you in a course, ticket fines go to central government is my understanding. Explains the rise of courses over points/fines, especially as police budgets are slashed under successive governments.

 

[bombur]

TBH I have only ever had one speeding ticket and points in 2011. 3am, no other traffic around, driven from Cardiff and wanted to get home, A road, 40 limit through a 'village' (a pub and three houses). Speed camera at 44 in a 40.

I have had a few others but argued all those and they were rescinded. Don't know about these days, but back then if you gave them a hard time and challenged speeding fines, they would often be cancelled. I put it down to the authorities just going for the easy money.

You'd probably be going 24 mph over the speed limit there now

 

[Nodzed]

First motoring offence in 41 years of driving On the upside, no points. The irony of the 'course' being on Zoom is not lost on me. Not on my bike or my Z3 but in the Yeti
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Suck it up Buttercup