My 507 re-body Questions.

[Duncodin]

I'm getting my thoughts together, winding myself up to start a 507 re-body. But before I pull the trigger I'll have a dozen (or more) questions.

Starting my own thread as somewhere to ask questions without hi-jacking somebody else's thread.

I have an M44 in pretty decent condition except the paintwork is about 50 shades of green. Well, more like 4 or 5 shades but it still looks better on photos thatn it does in real life.

I'm not interested in more horses so not going to go for a bigger engined donor. I've had my car for maybe 15 years or more and I know its foibles. It's got 88K on the clock and it drives nice and has always been reliable.

So. Am I wrong in using my M44 as a donor?

Edit. The thread is going off topic a bit about Matra Bagheera. The reason for this is because of the way the Bagheera has a steel rolling chassis and passenger cell with fibreglass body panels. Attaching fibreglass body panels to a Z3 frame is very 'bagheera-like'.

But I love talking about bagheera anyway. So keep it coming

 

[Duncodin]

So. To start. I have a couple of questions.

1. Insurance? Do kits and re-bodies get hammered for insurance? I obvioulsy won't be able to click the "No Mods" checkbox anymore. So am I still going to be able to get insurance for around £100 a year? Or maybe there's specialist insurers for kits? What ones do you use.

2. Are there multiple suppliers of 507 kits? If so, has anyone had good/bad experiences with any specific one?

3. My first purchase is going to be one of those scissor lifts. I see a few people on the forum have them. What's your opinion on the one you have? Suppliers?

 

[t-tony]

The one I bought (like the one @colb got) is very good. Quite easy to make it movable on a flat even surface. The lifting platform lifts up to around 50" so you need decent headroom to get full lift. Happy to give you a demo if you're ever up this way. Price was £1,300, I got a friend to collect it in his Transit van.

Tony.

 

[Nodzed]

My first purchase is going to be one of those scissor lifts. I see a few people on the forum have them. What's your opinion on the one you have? Suppliers?

I guess it depends on what you want from one.
I have had 3 so far with mixed results. All supplied from Automotech, prices on their website are plus VAT and delivery.
Links added full specs are there.

#1 Automotech 2.5T scissors Lift
It was OK but had a single large centre lift ram and that made any work under the car very difficult.

https://automotechservices.co.uk/products/as-5500-2-5-tonne-scissor-lift/

#2 Automotech tilting Scissors Lift

https://automotechservices.co.uk/products/09013-adjustable-mobile-tilting-lift/

Was a tilting manual lift, really couldn't get on with it, great if space is limited but found it an awkward system.

#3 Automotech 3T scissors Lift
Is a drive on ramp with twin rams under the ramp beds so centre access is unrestricted. By far the best out of the 3 and the one I should of bought first!

https://automotechservices.co.uk/products/as-7530d-garage-scissor-lift/

 

[Duncodin]

Thank you Nodzed. Would I be right in thinking that your #1 gives better access to the underside/sills whereas #3 completely restricts access to underside/sills?

I think I might prefer #1 - until one day I need to drop the transmission then I'd wish i had #3. Is it safe to work under?

 

[Duncodin]

I'll be reading @Dxbolton 's 507 thread again tonight But, @Dxbolton , where did you buy the kit? Thanks

Edit. I found the kit. It's not on Tribute's website yet and I don't have a MyBook, YouFace, WotsNext (or whatever it's called) account so didn't click. But I found Chris at Tribute and I feel a kit coming on soon.

 

[Nodzed]

Thank you Nodzed. Would I be right in thinking that your #1 gives better access to the underside/sills whereas #3 completely restricts access to underside/sills?

I think I might prefer #1 - until one day I need to drop the transmission then I'd wish i had #3. Is it safe to work under?

No other way round #1 give no access to the underside, #3 gives full access. If you go automotech #3 is the one but its expensive.

 

[Nodzed]

No other way round #1 give no access to the underside, #3 gives full access. If you go automotech #3 is the one but its expensive.

Sorry misread that, yes #3 does restricts the sills but I use blocks so I can get the car a good 8 inches above the ramps. If you want sill access #1 is the one to go for.

 

[RB2]

Congrats, I keep looking at the isabella kit they do. The struggle is real. Looking forward to your thread

 

[Duncodin]

Sorry misread that, yes #3 does restricts the sills but I use blocks so I can get the car a good 8 inches above the ramps. If you want sill access #1 is the one to go for.

Thank you Nodzed for the posts. I think I'll go for the AS-7630. Most of my work will be 'beside' the car or just reaching under front and back. I think if I have a need to work right in the middle of the car I'll take it to a mate's who's got a proper lift. I'd feel safer under one of those anyway.

 

[Nodzed]

Thank you Nodzed for the posts. I think I'll go for the AS-7630. Most of my work will be 'beside' the car or just reaching under front and back. I think if I have a need to work right in the middle of the car I'll take it to a mate's who's got a proper lift. I'd feel safer under one of those anyway.

No worries mate glad to offer some opinions. Don't worry about safety both the scissor lifts have full interlocks.

 

[t-tony]

I took my car out this afternoon and took these pictures. This type of lift has 2 rams which only restrict access at one end, so depending which way you load the car you can have good access.
You can get almost free access to the sills depending how high you lift the car, there are multiple choices here.

The easy way to get good clearance is to lift the car directly off the floor, (on standard suspension you don't need the wooden ramps to clear the lift). So lift the car about 18" and the place an upturned milk crate under each wheel. Lower the lift back to the ground leaving the wheels on the milk crates. and place as many lift pads on the arms as you need, then lift again.

Tony.

 

[Dxbolton]

Tribute are the suppliers and Chris has been very helpful.
I’m happy to offer advice if needed with parts and build.
I’m not in a rush to paint mine as the gel coat gives an older appearance and makes the car look like it’s had a life
There are a few being built now so several others will also have Ida’s to help. I will be at Simply BMW in Beaulieu in a couple of weeks if you want to take a look at the car

 

[Pingu]

1. Insurance? Do kits and re-bodies get hammered for insurance? I obvioulsy won't be able to click the "No Mods" checkbox anymore. So am I still going to be able to get insurance for around £100 a year? Or maybe there's specialist insurers for kits? What ones do you use.

Insurance will be more, as the thing you are insuring is worth more.

Expect a rise proportionate to the increase in value. If your current car is worth £5k and the kit car is worth £25k, then expect insurance to cost five times more.

It probably won't be as bad as that, but if you plan for the worst.



If you are expecting the kit car to cost x. Have a reserve of x as well. Keep a close eye on the finances, but don't let the other half see the bills.

If you expect the build to take y. Be prepared for it to take 3y. Don't rush it. You will have to live with the consequences.

Don't expect the insurers to value the car as highly as you do. Mine is insured with a guaranteed value for about 75% of the build cost.

There can be massive trade-offs between making something and buying something. If you can afford the time, it's usually cheaper to make it, but don't spend three days making something that only costs £10 - unless that's where you get your enjoyment.

Have fun. I've loved building mine, but it's like a garden. It's never finished. There's always something that needs fettling.

 

[Dxbolton]

My 507 is about £200 a year to insure, agreed value and 3000miles per year

 

[IanA]

I recently insured our family car at its purchase price. I then got a valuation from the dealer that reduced its current value to 55% of that price. Premium reduction = £3. And the cost has increased by almost 50% since last year.

I have two Tribute rebodies insured for what it cost me to build them. I pay around £120 per year. Due to the overall price increases I am expecting to get rinsed at renewal time.

 

[Duncodin]

Insurance will be more, as the thing you are insuring is worth more.

Expect a rise proportionate to the increase in value. If your current car is worth £5k and the kit car is worth £25k, then expect insurance to cost five times more.

It probably won't be as bad as that, but if you plan for the worst.



If you are expecting the kit car to cost x. Have a reserve of x as well. Keep a close eye on the finances, but don't let the other half see the bills.

If you expect the build to take y. Be prepared for it to take 3y. Don't rush it. You will have to live with the consequences.

Don't expect the insurers to value the car as highly as you do. Mine is insured with a guaranteed value for about 75% of the build cost.

There can be massive trade-offs between making something and buying something. If you can afford the time, it's usually cheaper to make it, but don't spend three days making something that only costs £10 - unless that's where you get your enjoyment.

Have fun. I've loved building mine, but it's like a garden. It's never finished. There's always something that needs fettling.

My Z3 insurance was jyst renewed. Premium £50. Broker's fee £50.10 ! My MB GLA also renewed. Last year 285. This year 295

Kit worth 25K seriously?

3y. I know what you mean. In software development we have a "rule" that says

"Every project will take 3 times longer than expected and cost 3 times more - even if you apply this rule ro it".

 

[Andybpowell]

I'm not sure that I agree with the build time as your estimate of how long it takes will be more accurate if you have more experiance of such projects
I guessed at a year for my ev conversion and had it mot'd and re-registered at 13 months so my point is that your estimate will be more accurate with greater experiance and competance but most people do underestimate the amount of time such a project can take and the wide range of skills that will be required to complete it to a decent standard

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8M--HBSkcg


also you may consider one of these as an alternative depending upon the space you have

 

[Duncodin]

In my youth I was into Matra Bagheeras big time. Had quite a few of them (probably because nobody else wanted them).

I mention the bagheera because they have a steel 'rolling chassis/passenger cell with outer fibreglass body panels. Here's one with the fibreglass panels removed. Still perfectly drivable.

Even though Bagheera was a production car nothing fitted. Front On, Front Off, Front On, Off, OnOff - you know how the song goes.

Somehow I think doing a z3 rebody will be a bit like working on a bagheera.

And if - WHEN - I'm stuck there's a ton of little people inside my computer that know what they're talking about.

Also. I'm not considering a build because I picture myself cruising down the road in a posh car. I'd be doing it because I'm retired, walk the dog 5 miles a day, and then spend the rest of day trying to look busy in case her indoors reminds me of some chores she wants me to do.

I was even thinking of restoring a Bagheera - but I'm alright now.

 

[IanA]

...Somehow I think doing a z3 rebody will be a bit like working on a bagheera.

Just no- Z3s don't rust nearly as badly as Baggies. And you can get most of the spares from multiple outlets. You don't have to rely on M. Delcourt in Paris.

I was even thinking of restoring a Bagheera - but I'm alright now.

There's not enough MIG welding wire in the universe. A shame they didn't galvanise them, lile the Murena.