Where's it coming from?I am not getting a Tribute kit.
Rebody MOT and a new/old interior
- Thread starter Pond
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2011
- Points
- 145
If you don't like grey areas, then I'm not sure kits cars are for you.
The external Z3 body panels are part of the crumple zone. A Z3 bonnet will withstand some damage and slow the car down before you feel the pain of impact - a fibreglass bonnet will just explode into a million pieces. The front bumper cross member is often removed and is also part of the crumple zone, as are the hangers for it.
You are changing the weight distribution and this may cause unexpected oversteer or understeer.
The standard seats are the height they are so there is no need for roll hoops. Swapping the seats for something "period" means your roll-over protection is reduced. Non-standard seats are not rated for the Z3, and are probably secured using bracing that hasn't been crash tested.
Any suspension modifications are to your specification (as the weight of the car is different), and haven't been tested to the same extent as BMW will have done with the originals (or any aftermarket manufacturers).
The standard body shape is aerodynamically stable to 155mph. The kit car body was designed by a man in a shed.
I'm sure there's more.
The external Z3 body panels are part of the crumple zone. A Z3 bonnet will withstand some damage and slow the car down before you feel the pain of impact - a fibreglass bonnet will just explode into a million pieces. The front bumper cross member is often removed and is also part of the crumple zone, as are the hangers for it.
You are changing the weight distribution and this may cause unexpected oversteer or understeer.
The standard seats are the height they are so there is no need for roll hoops. Swapping the seats for something "period" means your roll-over protection is reduced. Non-standard seats are not rated for the Z3, and are probably secured using bracing that hasn't been crash tested.
Any suspension modifications are to your specification (as the weight of the car is different), and haven't been tested to the same extent as BMW will have done with the originals (or any aftermarket manufacturers).
The standard body shape is aerodynamically stable to 155mph. The kit car body was designed by a man in a shed.
I'm sure there's more.
Please don’t.
I’m a dental technician to trade, I make crowns, bridges, implants. The first 20 years of my life I had loads of work repairing jaws, making teeth for accident victims. It wasn’t fun, not for me, not for the person whose face had literally been split in half by a steering wheel. That sort of work is thankfully now almost non existent, I’ve done maybe 3 case in the last 5 years, all women, 1-2 teeth knocked out by their hand, or wrist. Easy fix.
Smashed maxilla and 12-14 teeth missing? Not so much.
That’s if you live.
As Steve said above disabling, or removing an airbag isa Major MOT fail.
There actually was a petition about it from motorsport people, but it went nowhere.
I’m a dental technician to trade, I make crowns, bridges, implants. The first 20 years of my life I had loads of work repairing jaws, making teeth for accident victims. It wasn’t fun, not for me, not for the person whose face had literally been split in half by a steering wheel. That sort of work is thankfully now almost non existent, I’ve done maybe 3 case in the last 5 years, all women, 1-2 teeth knocked out by their hand, or wrist. Easy fix.
Smashed maxilla and 12-14 teeth missing? Not so much.
That’s if you live.
As Steve said above disabling, or removing an airbag isa Major MOT fail.
There actually was a petition about it from motorsport people, but it went nowhere.
The airbag light has to extinguish after some seconds not at the same time as the ignition light. This is to stop people doing exactly this con. Years ago when Ford Granadas first came with ABS (and suffered many expensive problems) the con then was to connect a feed from the alternator to the ABS to put the light out when the engine started, which is why the tester now has to wait a few seconds for all warning lights to go out.
Tony.
I am aware of all that. My issue was building a car that potentially I can't legally drive, let alone safely. I think I have it sorted in my head now though!
Egham!
What did you decide then?
Egham? What kit are you considering? Who makes it? No problem. I'm just curious.
It's a forum member; not sure I should say but it's a very close copy of the old DNA 250 cali kit.
Dxbolton
Zorg Guru (II)
I would NOT trust the high back seats in a roll over, they will not take a load!
Roll Hoops were added to protect the occupants. The windscreen frame is the other roll over hoop.
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2016
- Points
- 208
- Location
- Maybole , South Ayrshire
- Model of Z
- Z3 Individual Dakar / Orinoco Individual
Since we have dipped into this can of worms lets get into another aspect of airbag removal we haven't spoken about yet.
Lets talk passenger side first if your zed 3 came from the factory without a passenger airbag it has a different seatbelt fitted than ones with airbag fitted as with the airbag it has load limited seatbelt designed in conjunction with the pre tensioner system ( also inop once air bag removed) to take out excess slack then control the forward load to allow the person to meet the airbag at the right speed and moment.
The issue is this is also fitted to the drivers side seatbelt but unlike the passenger side there will be no rhd non limited belt for the offside as drivers airbag standard on a z3 .
The risk is obviously clattering head off wheel due to no srs systems.
Possible solution would be a offside seatbelt from a lhd car without a passenger airbag.
Real oem does list the part numbers for the seat belts with and without Force Limiters.
So for all you guys out the with no bag your seatbelt is no longer suitable.
Stephen.
Lets talk passenger side first if your zed 3 came from the factory without a passenger airbag it has a different seatbelt fitted than ones with airbag fitted as with the airbag it has load limited seatbelt designed in conjunction with the pre tensioner system ( also inop once air bag removed) to take out excess slack then control the forward load to allow the person to meet the airbag at the right speed and moment.
The issue is this is also fitted to the drivers side seatbelt but unlike the passenger side there will be no rhd non limited belt for the offside as drivers airbag standard on a z3 .
The risk is obviously clattering head off wheel due to no srs systems.
Possible solution would be a offside seatbelt from a lhd car without a passenger airbag.
Real oem does list the part numbers for the seat belts with and without Force Limiters.
So for all you guys out the with no bag your seatbelt is no longer suitable.
Stephen.
Wow, we are getting into the technical 'nuances' here now.
I look at it this way:
I want a 1960s replica. The Z3 happens to be the car that 'fits' what I want.
In the 1960s and 1970s there were no such things as airbags, or pedestrian safety systems, or crumple zones on cars.
I, for one, am not doing this to be 'safe'. I am doing it because I want the look of the car I like. I have had a very modern Volvo, it was super safe but extremely boring.
I could go and buy a Triumph Stag (or any other car of the period) from 1975 for a lot less money. It would have rudimentary seatbelts, no crash protection but still be legal on UK roads.
All I want is to be able to drive it on UK roads, should I wish to (which I probably won't very often).
I doubt anyone (with any brains) would rebody a Z3 and use it as everyday transport up and down Britain's motorways or A roads.
Dxbolton
Zorg Guru (II)
I’ve covered close to 3000 miles this year in the 507, and lots of that is motorway and dual carriageway.
The high speed stability has been very good and the safety provided by the factory is welcome.
My previous classics were 50’s American cars with no safety devices, apart from the Pontiac which had a Safety Ashtray, fitted in the middle so both driver and passenger could reach it easily
(that’s in the advertising blurb of the time )Attachments
....
But, as others have said, there's a lot of gray. The V5 doesn't say z3 so if the tester squints and thinks he can see a z3 under all that f/g then, the question is, is he in his rights to insist on testing it as a z3 and insist that all the z3 equipment that was fitted at the factory is still present.
If he is in his rights to test it as a z3 then he could, in theory, also insist on the original body panels being present because, after all, they were fitted at the factory and when the z3 design was crash tested, the body panels were present and included in, and affected, the crash test.
You are not going to get a definitive answer. Ask 10 mot testers and you'll get 10 different answers.
But it's gray. If you don't like gray then buy a real classic car.
Or move to Germany where there's not much gray at all and you can't even fit a bootlid spoiler unless it's one certifed by the OEM and cleared by TUV. Over there you buy a spoiler for a specific car and the box includes that certificate.
Our z3 is used all year round. I'll use it more once it's rebodied.
But, as others have said, there's a lot of gray. The V5 doesn't say z3 so if the tester squints and thinks he can see a z3 under all that f/g then, the question is, is he in his rights to insist on testing it as a z3 and insist that all the z3 equipment that was fitted at the factory is still present.
If he is in his rights to test it as a z3 then he could, in theory, also insist on the original body panels being present because, after all, they were fitted at the factory and when the z3 design was crash tested, the body panels were present and included in, and affected, the crash test.
You are not going to get a definitive answer. Ask 10 mot testers and you'll get 10 different answers.
But it's gray. If you don't like gray then buy a real classic car.
Or move to Germany where there's not much gray at all and you can't even fit a bootlid spoiler unless it's one certifed by the OEM and cleared by TUV. Over there you buy a spoiler for a specific car and the box includes that certificate.
Last edited:
jaguartvr
Zorg Guru (I)
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2017
- Points
- 95
But if you buy a classic car you don't get ABS which has got to be of the best additions to safety,
You also won't get reliability, remote central locking, air con, fuel injection etc etc the list goes on.
Cobra big V8, no safety features, twitchy handling and a high likelihood of killing myself...................Yes please. Still safer than my motorcycle!
All down to personal preference.
Skydiving anyone?
You also won't get reliability, remote central locking, air con, fuel injection etc etc the list goes on.
Cobra big V8, no safety features, twitchy handling and a high likelihood of killing myself...................Yes please. Still safer than my motorcycle!
All down to personal preference.
Skydiving anyone?
MOT Regs aside, if you remove the airbag from your car and have a crash your insurance will be null and void, period.
I will make the lack of airbags known when getting (specialist no doubt) insurance.
All I can tell you is my experience. I was not sure what to do when I built my first 250 California. I understood that the only way an MOT tester can fail the car is if the airbag light is illuminated and showing an fault, or does not illuminate at all, which also shows a fault. If it comes on with the ignition check, and then goes off, he has to assume that all is working correctly. He cannot test the airbags themselves, not would he be prepared to or even allowed to disassemble the car to check for an airbag presence. So the choice was do I not fit an airbag light, or do I fit a light that does what an airbag light does. I'd heard of one builder who had an MOT fail because "there was no airbag light, and Z3's have airbag lights so if its built on a Z3 it needs the light". So the car went back 2 days later with a fake airbag light and passed the MOT.
So I did the same and fitted a fake airbag light (in my case it was wired into the ABS light which came on and went off after a few seconds when the ignition was turned on. Obviously if you ever have a problem with the ABS then it will also appear to be an airbag problem, but I'd get the ABS fixed as this is far more important that the airbags. If I can't stop, I'll hit something hard and the airbags would be useful. If I can stop, I'd hope I never get into a situation where the airbags would have been required.
I am happy to take the small risk of not having airbags. I was driving cars in the 70's and 80's without any of this stuff.
I had the car for 4 years before selling it, and it passed the MOT without issues every time. The testers are usually so exited to test something different they don't even think about the airbags as long as the light shows a functioning system.
Currently building my second 250 California and this time I have bought a timer for the airbag light from eBay
So I did the same and fitted a fake airbag light (in my case it was wired into the ABS light which came on and went off after a few seconds when the ignition was turned on. Obviously if you ever have a problem with the ABS then it will also appear to be an airbag problem, but I'd get the ABS fixed as this is far more important that the airbags. If I can't stop, I'll hit something hard and the airbags would be useful. If I can stop, I'd hope I never get into a situation where the airbags would have been required.
I am happy to take the small risk of not having airbags. I was driving cars in the 70's and 80's without any of this stuff.
I had the car for 4 years before selling it, and it passed the MOT without issues every time. The testers are usually so exited to test something different they don't even think about the airbags as long as the light shows a functioning system.
Currently building my second 250 California and this time I have bought a timer for the airbag light from eBay
Repair car led car SRS airbag abs light timer switch 1 to 10 sec delay off 12V | eBay
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- Joined
- Dec 8, 2011
- Points
- 145
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