Investment opportunity or BS.

Tilly

Tilly

Zorg Addict
Joined
Dec 5, 2011
Points
49
In the for sale section of Pistonheads and autotrader you see various emotive statements about Z3M Roadsters for sale. Concours example, Rarest example, collectors example, Investment opportunity.

What about the facts.

I have just sold a 21 year old M Roadster with a complete history from new. A rare, collectors, investment example( please take that as irony). Could not say concours but structurally and mechanically A1. Serviced as specified only using OEM parts. All remedial work carried out ( vanos, boot welds, diff bearings, gearbox, rust proofing) Body work was original but if you wanted it concourse an extra £5000 would cover all the costs.

If I consider car price purchase price and the selling price, maintenance, insurance, MOT, Tax and oils then I can give the exact cost I have had to pay. The only extra would be the cost of fuel.

From new after selling price deducted the total was £76,450 giving an average cost per year of £3640 for each of the 21 years.

However, we all know the first 3 years depreciation is very high. Luckily I had the selling and purchase valuation carried out after 3 years.

Total cost over 18 years would now have been £53,250 giving an average cost per year of £2958 for each of the 18 years.

What about just buying and running the car for a few months doing no work and then selling it.

Your guess is as good as mine but I bet you would still loose thousands.


On one site there is a pristine 9000 mile 1987 Porsche for sale. Price new £55,452 selling price now £145,000. No figures for running costs or owners selling price given. Let's say the owner got £130,000 and spent £5000 over the years. That would be a profit of almost £70,000 tax free provided the selling price is met!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

As it happens I bought a one bedroom house in Guildford in 1987 for £56,000. It has been let for all those years and has just been valued. The profit is just over £300000. Even after tax it would still have made a profit of £250,000.

So moral of the story. For cars buy to enjoy don't believe all the investment BS. If you want investment look in other areas.

Can anybody else provide evidence (apart from traders) where they have actually made significant profit in selling a car?
 
Sorry only bought never sold, Will never sell.

Paid £1500 for this....

20170520_122741.webp
 
Cars can be an investment but you need to know your stuff, we restore the odd E type for a local dealer, he buys them right, puts them in concours condition and makes a very tidy profit, but he has been a trader for 40 years and has dealt with classics for the past 30.
 
Sean d said:
Cars can be an investment but you need to know your stuff, we restore the odd E type for a local dealer, he buys them right, puts them in concours condition and makes a very tidy profit, but he has been a trader for 40 years and has dealt with classics for the past 30.
Click to expand...

I see this happen every Monday night on Discovery Channel. A guy buys a car, another guy tarts it up, then the first guy sells it for a profit.

;)
 
Pingu said:
I see this happen every Monday night on Discovery Channel. A guy buys a car, another guy tarts it up, then the first guy sells it for a profit.

;)
Click to expand...
The last one we did was a yellow rag top and went to auction, Bernie Eccleston paid 118k for it, we have recently done another and that is at auction at the end of this month with an estimated value of 145k
 
We had this debate on another thread recently ;) My view is it's incorrect to include running costs when establishing the investment return on a car.

An investment refers to the capital movement of an object and not any operational expenditure associated with it. And that's exactly how the tax man sees it too - most typically with investment property.

On the basis you probably paid around £40k (?) for it and got £15-£20k it's not an investment anyway! Although loosing only £1,000 a year in depreciation or having only 50-60% depreciation over 21 years is pretty cheap motoring.

Does a secondhand Z3 have investment potential? Well yes, I think it probably does. Is it a good investment, particularly in the short term - no. Will it get a decent return - unlikely.

Do people use complete b*llshit terms to advertise - yes? And it drives me mad. But anyone who buys a Z3 on the basis of the investment potential over and above enjoying the car can probably afford to waste his money. It concerns me more in my other world of Scalextric collecting where it's much easier to mislead ordinary people and where the term is used much more frequently.

If it really is rare you just don't need to say it. Because the item will speak that for itself.
 
Sean d said:
Cars can be an investment but you need to know your stuff, we restore the odd E type for a local dealer, he buys them right, puts them in concours condition and makes a very tidy profit, but he has been a trader for 40 years and has dealt with classics for the past 30.
Click to expand...
Indeed but that's not really an investment as such. That's a good piece of business from an experienced professional.
 
Bought a car recently for £1000

Did nothing but clean it and sold for £2000 within two weeks.

Not massive money but great profit as a %
 
To me, an investment is something that you can buy for A, keep secure for B and sell for C. It's a good investment if C-(A+B) is more than you would have made in the bank.

If I buy a watch for £100, keep it for a year and sell it for more than £105 :thumbsup:

If I buy a car for £1,000, insure it for £200, MOT it for £50 and garage it for £120 (no need for VED as I won't be using it) and sell it a year later for £1440 :thumbsup:. Can you buy a Z3 for £1000 and sell it in 12 months for £1500 (or more) without doing anything to it, except store it?

Not many cars make good investments if you include all the fixed costs. Even worse investment if you include any repairs or man-hours.

I think you may be able to call a good E46 M3 an investment opportunity at the moment. Look at who is about to become rich enough to join the car buying market in the next few years and buy the car they wanted their dad to take them to school in.
 
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