Aviation Hawker Hunter Down.

andyglym

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Over the last few years at Waddo I think this the closest they have been to an incident.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDR1JjeBsVc
That's a tad naughty, aircraft approach on a defined glide path. Either side of the runway are a number of boxes with lights in, to ensure the angle is correct the pilot should see green lights either side, white too high and red to low. I would suggest the F1 in that clip was too low on his approach.
 

DavidM

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It's not a question of banning air shows, but safety first with minimal risk to others, therefore performing over open sea would definitely minimise fatalities in the event of an accident and maybe also provide the pilot with a chance of survival!
 

andyglym

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It's not a question of banning air shows, but safety first with minimal risk to others, therefore performing over open sea would definitely minimise fatalities in the event of an accident and maybe also provide the pilot with a chance of survival!
Indeed. Yet to be substantiated but it would appear that the pilot elected to stay with his aircraft 'till the end trying to avoid casualties. Over safer areas, such as the sea, would afford the pilot ample opportunity to safely eject.
 

miller1098

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Hey @miller1098 you nearly got hit by a jet once, if my memory is correct?
Yep everyone in this village had a lucky break that day the wing of the Cessna landed in someone's garden.the rest of it was strewn over our field couldn't imagine more people weren't hurt .it was like watching a movie there was a massive explosion when the Jaguar blew up.Our valley is on the low flying route through Wales. We get a lot of traffic
 

hard top

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On August 29th 1991 Jaguar T.2A XX843/GT was destroyed following a mid-air collision with Cessna 152 G-BMHI over Carno, Powys. The Cessna pilot and Jaguar pilot Wg Cdr J Marden were killed. Subsequently the Cessna was found to have been operating in a military low-flying area without permission.

http://www.targetlock.org.uk/jaguar/service_uk.html
 

Eddie Zedder

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That's a tad naughty, aircraft approach on a defined glide path. Either side of the runway are a number of boxes with lights in, to ensure the angle is correct the pilot should see green lights either side, white too high and red to low. I would suggest the F1 in that clip was too low on his approach.
Just a tad! It was Solo Turk (F15). Heard that he got a rollicking for that! Puts on a good display though.
 

abh29

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Indeed. Yet to be substantiated but it would appear that the pilot elected to stay with his aircraft 'till the end trying to avoid casualties. Over safer areas, such as the sea, would afford the pilot ample opportunity to safely eject.
As this incident occurred so very near to open sea, why did the organisers decide to put members of the public [who were driving on a major highway] at increased risk. If the regs are at all strict in regarding minimising risks to the public, surely moving it to over the sea should have been done as a result of part of the risk assessment [under what is the likely consequences if a plane crashes]
 

miller1098

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Risk.what is an acceptable level? Chances of a plane crash?chances of casualties?the same criteria have to apply if the airfield is inland or near the coast.not all airfields are coastal.especially in America or on the continent.This doesn't make it any less tragic,and I would imagine there will be a review of safety
 

abh29

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My point is that in completing a Risk Assessment you look to both reduce the risk of an incident and to reduce the consequence from that incident if it does occur.i have neve seen any assessment completely remove the risk of an incident so you work on then reducing the effect.if you are very near the sea ,as this was,it seems a reduction in consequences would be made by going over the sea as against over land. In the event of the option of being over the sea not available , then you look to perform over the area in the locality that would have the least effect in the event of an incident occurring.i would not consider the option of holding the event over a major highway would be the best option available in most areas. In the final consideration it may be that the overall risks can not be reduced to an acceptable level , so you move to a more suitable location.
I would hate to see this used as a reason to ban these events,but the safety of the non parcipitating public must be a major consideration.i consider the spectators at the event carry out their own opinion of the risk when attending.
The level of risk acceptable ,I would think would a matter to agreed with the authority and the HSE.
You can not carry out any operation without having some element of risk,but you should always look to use means to reduce the effects of that incident.
 

miller1098

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I'm only guessing here but the chance of an accident happening are so small that I don't know if they are quantifiable.you would have to get someone to say in their opinion that something is safe or unsafe.then the worse happens.who would want to be in the firing line for that?Saying that if it was my family hurt I wouldn't want any air shows
 

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Very sad situation, and a number have happened recently. Hopefully this won't cause a reduction in the number of air shows
 

GazHyde

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Well there you go then... and will cause a lot of debate I think.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34044383

"Significant restrictions on vintage jets in air displays have been imposed after the Shoreham Airshow crash, the UK's aviation regulator has announced.

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said vintage jets would be "limited to flypasts" and "high-energy aerobatics" would not be permitted."

Full press release from the Civil Aviation Authority actually states "until further notice". Bloody journalists...

"Flying displays over land by vintage jet aircraft will be significantly restricted until further notice. They will be limited to flypasts, which means ‘high energy’ aerobatics will not be permitted."


http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=14&pagetype=65&appid=7&mode=detail&nid=2479
 
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andyglym

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Well there you go then... and will cause a lot of debate I think.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34044383

"Significant restrictions on vintage jets in air displays have been imposed after the Shoreham Airshow crash, the UK's aviation regulator has announced.

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said vintage jets would be "limited to flypasts" and "high-energy aerobatics" would not be permitted."

Full press release from the Civil Aviation Authority actually states "until further notice". Bloody journalists...

"Flying displays over land by vintage jet aircraft will be significantly restricted until further notice. They will be limited to flypasts, which means ‘high energy’ aerobatics will not be permitted."


http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=14&pagetype=65&appid=7&mode=detail&nid=2479
Knee jerk politics but understandable given the tragic circumstances.
 

abh29

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But have the organisers helped themselves today by saying what a great safety record they have.
Looking forward to the event at Rhyl this weekend.
 

abh29

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I'm only guessing here but the chance of an accident happening are so small that I don't know if they are quantifiable.you would have to get someone to say in their opinion that something is safe or unsafe.then the worse happens.who would want to be in the firing line for that?Saying that if it was my family hurt I wouldn't want any air shows
Carrying out Risk Assessment does not rely on someone say it's safe or unsafe.
It's a equation of initially what risks can occur,and the consequence of those incidents occurring ,then what measures can be introduced to reduce those consequent events.finally is the Risk permitted or -------- back to the drawing board.
My thoughts are with the families of those killed and injured.
 

t-tony

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Carrying out Risk Assessment does not rely on someone say it's safe or unsafe.
It's a equation of initially what risks can occur,and the consequence of those incidents occurring ,then what measures can be introduced to reduce those consequent events.finally is the Risk permitted or -------- back to the drawing board.
My thoughts are with the families of those killed and injured.
Agreed, but ultimately one person surely must have the final say so. The buck stops there. I wouldn't want that responsibility.

Tony.
 

abh29

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Agreed
I would not want that call in a field I have no knowledge, but others involved in the industry must have the knowledge to make that "shout" at the end of the day. I am sure the people qualified to make that call will do so in the interest of the general public[whose lives are put at risk] not just the organisers of the Aircraft Show industry. My feelings are with the families of those killed not with the Aircraft Show organisers.
 

andyglym

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