Electric vehicle sustainability

Keet

Keet

Zorg Guru (IV)
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British Zeds
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Interesting take on the sustainability of electric vehicles. If there is anyone of a gentler disposition, the language is a little strong in parts.

View: https://youtu.be/L_zdtaJeYmw
 
Some manufacturers are leasing the batteries to the customers, Toyota on the other hand I believe are offering a 7 year warranty on the Hybrid's battery on the condition you have the car serviced by them ££££££$$$$$
 
I've been wondering when the penny would start to drop with electric cars, all of us on here know that batteries have a limited life span. With lead-acid batteries there is at least the option that they can be recycled, don't know what the options are when it comes to these new-fangled lithium ones that a lot of electric cars use. Time to start googling, methinks.
 
My next door neighbours son is an apprentice with jaguar/land rover dealer up here .
He was telling me ( showed me some pictures to) about the new hybrid range rover it has a problem ( on sporadic cars :rolleyes:although they have 2 in :whistle::whistle:) with cells going dead in the battery pack.
Problem is to remove the battery pack to change the faulty cell requires body and chassis to be separated.
Now fair enough at the moment they are under warranty but how much is that going to cost if it wasn't :eek::eek::eek:
 
I've seen John Cadogan before. He doesnt mind his language and he does tend to crusade a bit. But he does make a point . . .

Good post !
 
EV's are a transition technology in my opinion. They will have a short life and will die when hydrogen cars come to the front.

Many large manufactures are developing both technologies to cover the bases.
 
AleNod said:
I've seen John Cadogan before. He doesnt mind his language and he does tend to crusade a bit. But he does make a point . . .

Good post !
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I generally find that he tells it pretty straight.
 
To be fair though, EV technology is in its infancy. The technology will be improved, recycling will improve and economies of scale will be achieved in time. The early internal combustion engine vehicles had the odd shortcoming as well.
 
Cars should be loud and smelly, simples.=))
I can see 'hydrogen', but I've never been convinced by the 'electric' route.
Maybe it's just that electric vehicles are being brought in before the technology and infrastructure is adequately developed.
 
Hydrogen is very expensive to produce. It maybe in air but its not easy to separate it for use.

My sister has had electric cars in the States for well over ten years without any trouble. My father bought one last year and loves it. He has the car for general running around then his 6.7l diesel pickup for towing trailers and working so both ends of the spectrum are covered.

Reconditioned batteries are also becoming more common.

I think it will only be time until our cars are as antiquated as steam engines. They are still popular but technology has moved on.
 
This is a bit of a hobby-horse of mine. The batteries use rare metals that are extremely environmentally unsound to mine and extract. And some experts think there are insufficient sources of certain metals to keep making the current batteries. Like all rechargeable batteries they deteriorate with use, and the more you use rapid charging the quicker they will go down. Someone I know has bought a recent secondhand Nissan Leaf and the batteries are already below 90% of their new capacity, so as they get older your range will be less and less. Can the batteries be recycled? Does anyone know?

Another friend has just bought a new Golf electric car. I asked about the range and he said he feels unsure about going any further than to Glasgow and back, a round trip of around 70 miles. And if he uses the heater he says the charge level takes a real hit. Hey, we live in Scotland, a cool part of the world.

A few years ago James May made a TV programme called "Cars of the People". In the last episode he looked at alternative fuels and was seen driving his own BMW i3. He said what a good car it was, except that its useful range was only about 80 miles. Then he said, hang on a minute, one hundred years ago the Baker corp in the USA produced an electric car with a useful range of about 80 miles. Progress? He finally drove the Hyundai hydrogen cell car. He was impressed. Excellent driving car, 300 mile range and 6 minute fill up. The only issue is there is virtually nowhere to fill it up. The other issue is, can we make enough hydrogen economically enough?

Is personal transport doomed?
 
The most sustainable thing to do is what we are doing, buy an old car that has done the years and therefore has offset itself against the build process due to the length of time it's been running. EV is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Sounds good and economical, but the lithium mines are destroying natural environments, and the manufacturing process isn't exactly eco friendly either.
 
No one seems to ask about all the extra electricity we will have to generate either. We're already hearing that without further nuclear power stations we could be facing power cuts in the coming years. If we all have electric vehicles, where is all that extra power coming from?
 
Keet said:
No one seems to ask about all the extra electricity we will have to generate either. We're already hearing that without further nuclear power stations we could be facing power cuts in the coming years. If we all have electric vehicles, where is all that extra power coming from?
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From all these wonderful cheap and clean nuclear power stations, of course.:whistle:Just don't mention the left-over piles of radioactive garbage that are left after the stations get to the end of their lives. Must be about time the Welsh Assembly woke up and started looking at all the towns/villages here with "Felin" in their name (Welsh for "mill", for those that don't know). Most, if not all, of them were watermills, and there's no shortage of that round these parts.:rolleyes:Utterly sustainable, and the only pollution would come from building turbines and generators. Guess there's no profit in that, then. Cynical? Moi?
 
the Nefyn cat said:
From all these wonderful cheap and clean nuclear power stations, of course.:whistle:Just don't mention the left-over piles of radioactive garbage that are left after the stations get to the end of their lives. Must be about time the Welsh Assembly woke up and started looking at all the towns/villages here with "Felin" in their name (Welsh for "mill", for those that don't know). Most, if not all, of them were watermills, and there's no shortage of that round these parts.:rolleyes:Utterly sustainable, and the only pollution would come from building turbines and generators. Guess there's no profit in that, then. Cynical? Moi?
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Hmmm, watermills eh? Reality check, the World's largest wind farm off the South coast of England only generates the same power as for example Sizewell B PWR power Station. Very localised sustainability yes but major production? The reality is we need a balance of sources, Wind Farms, tidal, hydro, solar and gas. Nuclear cheap to construct, nope but it's on tap demand 24/7/365 with a life cycle of 50 years per Unit. Oh, decaying nuclear waste = amerisium (excuse smelling) = space batteries (accepted on waste storage though, good for jobs). The new technology of smaller fast breeder reactors is the future, quick and cheaper to build
 
Expect more wind and solar generation in the future. The long run marginal cost has come down to being grid parity in recent years.

The environmentalist have even come up with a colour code for Hydrogen sources:
- Green if the source is environmentally sustainable such as splitting water with renewable electricity
- Blue if its striping hydrogen from natural gas with renewable electricity
- Black for all the beastly coal sources etc

So watch the cost of a litre of water in the future if we go the hydrogen way. The cost of your pint of beer or glass of wine will rise accordingly too.
 
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