As expected...."bleeding" heartache

[Zola3]

Greetings everyone....

A contented couple of weeks of reconditioning/painting calipers, replacing knackered flexible hoses for steel braided and generally making good would be rounded off with a Sunday afternoon system bleed and all would be super-duper, right?

Wrong.

Okay. I guess all brake lines were drained down during overhaul.... probably a mistake.
So, have issued at least 2 litres of dot4 through circuit using a pressure bleeder - fluid issuing from calipers is now clean/clear & bubble free.

No resistance in brake pedal.

Have used INPA to purge ABS : a small but significant 'ejaculation' from each caliper as expected - all seems sound.

No resistance in brake pedal.

Hmmm. Predictable I spose.

Any kind soul willing to share similar heartache/advice?

Thanks ever so.

 

[NZ00Z3]

There is still air in there somewhere.

As you have had the calipers off. I know its a silly question. Did you install them on the correct side of the car so that the bleed valves are on the top of the caliper? One of the members here didn't get it right during a brake upgrade and spent many many hours trying to bleed the brakes until the error was found.

 

[Zola3]

Hello Murray,

Thanks for getting back.

No fair point.......all nipples are pointing upwards (endearing image). Yes air is there....my concern is that because all 4 lines from the fluid chamber were drained down, i have subverted any other bleeding attempts as the problem is in the Master Chamber....

Paul

 

[t-tony]

Bleed the master cyl. at the pipes as they exit the M/Cyl.

Tony.

 

[Stevo7682]

would agree air in something have never done a zed 3 abs bleed but when we get cars at work that need an electronic assisted abs bleed when we use our bosch kts to do an abs bleed in conjunction with a pressure bleeder it uses about 1.5 -2 litres of brake fluid to complete it

 

[Zola3]

Bleed the master cyl. at the pipes as they exit the M/Cyl.

Tony.

Thanks Tony...err not entirely sure how one carries that out....

 

[Zola3]

would agree air in something have never done a zed 3 abs bleed but when we get cars at work that need an electronic assisted abs bleed when we use our bosch kts to do an abs bleed in conjunction with a pressure bleeder it uses about 1.5 -2 litres of brake fluid to complete it

I don't think you need the pressure bleeder for the abs/INPA bleed do you? Anybody?

 

[Stevo7682]

I don't think you need the pressure bleeder for the abs/INPA bleed do you? Anybody?

Like I said never done on a zed but the reason we use our pressure bleeder is for fluid capacity as abs bleed drinks fluid.

 

[Zola3]

OK, to bring closure to this thread.....

Basically, YIPPEE

This seriously works....there are a few YouTube vids on this but to be brief...for that is all that is required.

So, pressure bled brake lines and used INPA to bleed ABS: brake pedal went to floor - no resistance. Suspected MC had air in due to drain down of all brake lines,

NOW: To bleed MC in situ, connect a clear PVC bleed tube of appropriate length from the caliper bleed nipple nearest to the MC fluid chamber, to the chamber itself. Attach a filter of cloth or some such on the end of the tube (with a twist tie or rubber band) going into the chamber to filter any crud that might emanate in the bleed process. You'll have to remove the small plastic filter in the top of the chamber as the tube end must stay submerged in the brake fluid during the process.

Open the bleed nipple.

Now, gently, start regularly pumping the brake pedal (remember the vulnerability of the MC seals). As you pump a mixture of air and fluid will start to travel from the caliper to the MC chamber.
REMEMBER to keep the brake fluid topped up as you go as otherwise you will defeat the whole object. By the time all air (bubbles or longer slugs of air) is absent from the tube and just brake fluid is 'circulating' in this 'induction' process (for want of a better word) your brake pedal should suddenly be reassuringly firm again. If not you have problems elsewhere.

Close bleed nipple and carefully disconnect the tubing avoiding spillages.

Wow what a relief....like administering mouth-to-mouth and suddenly getting a heartbeat. To celebrate I did another pressure bleed and ABS bleed. Astonishing that a nearly 20 year old braking system can be as new. It's a real pleasure to be able to late brake and enjoy the drive so much more.

I guess I might be teaching some of you to 'suck eggs', as it were, but hopefully someone might find this useful. Who needs a MC bleed kit?

Thanks to all for your replies here.

Y'all!

Paul

 

[mrscalex]

Not necessary to let air into the system when doing brake work. Or to let the fluid out completely.

Just brace the brake pedal down. This stops fluid leakage.

 

[handsomejackuk]

when i do my brakes i use a vacuum bleeder suck out as much of the old fluid of the master cylinder refill with fresh and use the vacuum bleeder bottle full of brake fluid enusre the fluid level in the bottle never empties, now go to each brake nipple and remove and put grease on the thread to prevent air being sucked through the nipple threads, suck fluid though each bleed nipple until fluid is clear, repeat on all 4 calipers, i didnt even do it any specific order and job is done no pressing of the brake pedal needed, heres what i used off ebay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-75L-Br...657165?hash=item2f4591f88d:g:XBgAAOSw5EJe8xxc


I have used the vacuum bleed for sucking all sorts of fluid out too great for power steering reservoir, sucking out anti freeze, not tried with oil but was tempted to suck out my dry sump on my motorbike yesterday as lot less messy than opening sump plug and getting oil everywhere...

 

[ktnez99]

Not necessary to let air into the system when doing brake work. Or to let the fluid out completely.

Just brace the brake pedal down. This stops fluid leakage.

We know, don’t we @t-tony ?

 

[mrscalex]

We know, don’t we @t-tony ?

I only know because of @t-tony Best single tip I have ever had from this forum

 

[Nodzed]

Not necessary to let air into the system when doing brake work. Or to let the fluid out completely.

Just brace the brake pedal down. This stops fluid leakage.

Didn't know that

 

[mrscalex]

Didn't know that

It's counterintuitive. But works with barely a single drop leaving the open pipe.

That's not to say if you are removing downstream pipes there won't be some caught in there that dribbles out.