1998 Z3M won't start

[Steve Cooke]

Hello,I am trying to fix a 1998 Z3M roadster that will not start. It is a 6 cyl 3.2 E-code E36(7). Here is some blurb that may be relevant:
VIN WBSCK9100WLD22358
Engine S50B32
Built in Spartanburg, which I was surprised to discover is in the USA, not Germany!
Market Europa
Type CK91
Production date 04.03.1998
Manual transmission
EWS 2 module 61.35-4 146 047
EWS transmitter module 61.35-8 379 502
Body Control module GM IV HIGH 12V 61.35-8 369 484

I have a service manual - (Bentley Publishers BMW Z3 Roadster covers 4 and 6 cylinder models 1996. 1997, 1998) and a downloaded 1998 Electrical Troubleshooting Manual BMW Z3 (E36/7) Z3 Roadster/M Roadster for vehicles produced 9/97 thru 8/98, BMW PN 01 00 0 006 552 (Don't BMW love all those zeroes?).

Congatulations to those still awake!

I drove to a store and then the car would not start when I got back in. The starter turned over strongly and I had fuel. The doors were shut and I tried with the clutch up and down, it was in neutral. It also would not push start. I had it trailered to a local garage where they found there was no ignition spark (they held a spark plug against the engine block.
Now the fun part - this is in Saudi Arabia (Dhahran) and initially the garage said 'we took it to a diagnostic computer that said the crank sensor is faulty'. I supplied a new crank sensor (genuine BMW part) and the garage had the car for 6 more weeks without diagnosing the fault. The BMW dealership here, after much merriment amongst the staff, declared a 1998 car 'very very old, we cannot assist. but would you like a great price on a 2014 model?'

Now for what I have been doing as I don't have scan tool access:

1. Tried new and boosted battery, starter turns but engine doesn't start. 340 Amps max drawn, voltage goes down to 9.5V whilst starter operating.
2. Earth cable from battery to engine area continuity tested to the jump start earth point and other earth points on the body under the hood (not to engine itself).
3. Battery +ve cable tested to B+ jump start point, starter motor main cable and main fusebox under hood ('power distribution Unit').
4. All fuses and relays tested from main fuse box, 3 relays and 40A fuse in driver footwell tested, relays in E box tested (all tested by removal and bench tested using +12V supply for correct operation and contacts (open and short) and swopping around where they are identical).
5. No clutch switches are fitted to the car, even though the manuals state there are 1 or 2 - S32 and S235
( the start of many variations from the manuals).
6. Tried other keys, same fault. The starter operates even with the plastic (valet) key so I guess the starter is not inhibited by the EWS (immobiliser sytem).
7. Key sensor (coil) tested, comes out at 2 Ohms so isn't shorted or open.
8. EWS module, EWS transmitter module and Body control module opened . No visual damage like water ingress (not that likely in Saudi Arabia) or burnt bits found, don't have circuit info to test the relays and don't want to unsolder anything unless I can prove it's faulty.
9. Measured 12V to fuel pump, it's there for about a second when ignition put to 'on', then goes back to 0V and there again when in 'start' but goes back to 0V a second after key goes back to 'On' (position 2).
10. Ignition switch removed, there are 2 wires supposed to be in it's connector (X33) sockets 12 and 13 according to both manuals but these are not connected, However there are 2 wires in sockets 3 and 4 of X33, which I cannot find in either of my manuals. The other 4 wires agree with the manuals. The ignition switch part number is 8 360 922.3 and a Google image search shows the same wire colours as mine but it's so frustrating that the manuals don't agree for the others!

Tomorrow I will try to find out if the ignition switch is working correctly and where these 2 wires go, unfortunately there are no Z3s I can access and (so far) no one else in the area where I am with an E36 pre 1999.

Must go out now, it's 8:30pm on New Year's eve and I shall drown my exasperation with decidely unIslamic beverages. Then back to the car next year, possibly with a large hammer.

Happy New Year to you all!

 

[oldcarman]

Have you confirmed that you have spark? Are the plugs getting fuel, are they wet if you take them out after cranking?

 

[zedonist]

If you have no spark and it is cranking then it is an EWS fault most likely, if you search the net there are a number of bypass threads for this, I am surprised though at the BMW Dealer attitude, they could at the very least have put it on diagnostic for you to confirm the fault, I still recommend doing this.

 

[t-tony]

Is it possible/likely that it has had an extra after market immobilizer fitted that you might not be aware of? I have seen this with other types of cars over the years. For some obscure reason the immobilizer kicks in and you don't have the means to switch it off.

Tony.

 

[GazHyde]

It does sound like an issue with the alarm, and surprisingly common... Do you have the "house brick" remote for the alarm? If so it could just need reprogramming

https://zroadster.org/articles/3g-ews-remote-fob-programming.24/

 

[Aceman]

I would agree this sounds very much like an EWS problem. If you can find out how to bypass it so that you can get ignition to the plugs it should confirm where the fault is. You can also get the immobiliser programmed out of the ECU but this would be a backward step unless you fit an additional immobiliser to replace it but that would also rule out an ecu fault.

 

[Lee]

You could cheat the EWS and bypass it. The EWS interacts with the fuel pump and ignition system you could try running your own live to these components.

This is something I've heard done.

 

[Steve Cooke]

Hello again, I am checking the ignition switch (with loom and connector x33), 2 wire locations and colours differ from the manuals. Have checked an ebay switch for sale (photo) which shows the same wiring I have; it's from a 1998 318i coupe. So it would seem my switch has not been modified. I'm just trying to trace where these 2 'different' wires go to so I can check all switch functions. The wires are X33-3 white/green and X33-4 red/white. Because the ignition switch is so critical to the 12V switching I will solve this first before following up the immobiliser suggestions. I will of course post the solution if by some miracle I find it.

 

[FRANKIE]

Hello again, I am checking the ignition switch (with loom and connector x33), 2 wire locations and colours differ from the manuals. Have checked an ebay switch for sale (photo) which shows the same wiring I have; it's from a 1998 318i coupe. So it would seem my switch has not been modified. I'm just trying to trace where these 2 'different' wires go to so I can check all switch functions. The wires are X33-3 white/green and X33-4 red/white. Because the ignition switch is so critical to the 12V switching I will solve this first before following up the immobiliser suggestions. I will of course post the solution if by some miracle I find it.

I had a problem with 325ci. The key would turn the car 'ON' but would not start it. The starter would not activate. I got under the car and hot wired the starter. It cranked. I went into the car and turned the ignition to "on" and went under the car and cranked the starter. It didn't start. I sprayed starter fluid into the air cleaner, got back under the car and hot wired the starter again while the ignition was "on". It fired up but only to the extent of using the starter fluid. This told me that the key didn't engage the starter and the fuel wasn't being delivered. The chances of the ignition starter wire going bad and the fuel pump failing at the same time are very high. The one thing that effects them both is the EWS system. It turned out that the battery in the TRANSPONDER in the key was dead. This may not be your problem but you have to start testing things one at a time. When you KNOW exactly what it is that doesn't work, look at the components that affect that group of items that are malfunctioning. As other members have said, it is probably an existing or aftermarket alarm system. Cars that are running one moment and then don't start, say, after you've come out of the store you just visited, can do this because of a failed fuel relay switch. Keep us informed. Frankie

 

[FRANKIE]

See if this helps..................

Concentrate on 'd' and 'h'. Frankie

 

[FRANKIE]

Also, another thought. It once happened to me that the fuel gauge read half a tank of gas when the car stopped. Turned out that the tank was empty and the gauge was faulty. Just a thought. Open the air filter box and spray in some starter fluid and try cranking it. If it fires, then you know you're not getting fuel. Work it out from there. Frankie

 

[Steve Cooke]

After a lot of fault finding, the DME unit was found burnt inside. The burnt components/connector pin was pin 64, which according to the BMW DME list 1210.21-1b (DME connector X6000 for S50B32 engine) is a signal 'Air conditioning ready' from 'A115 Automatic Climate Control Unit pin 10' according to the DME wiring diagram. I have a new DME but obviously want to check the unit connected to pin 64 for problems to avoid damaging the new DME.
However I cannot find this unit - there is an A/C control unit with 3 knobs in the centre consol with nothing behind it but 'A115'? I cannot find it even on an internet search. Where is this unit? The car has air conditioning option 'S530A' - maybe it doesn't even have this unit? If so where is pin 64 connected to?
It has been a very exasperating time finding out most of my Bentley manual wiring diagram is incorrect and also my downloaded Z3M electrical troubleshooting manual is also incorrect concerning the DME. Trouble is that the correct DME wiring list (DME MS50, - 6 Cylinder S50 B32) is not model specific so doesn't have a component location list/diagram.
So if anyone can put me out of my misery and tell me exactly where DME pin 64 is connected to, I'd be soooooooooooooooo grateful!

 

[FRANKIE]

After a lot of fault finding, the DME unit was found burnt inside. The burnt components/connector pin was pin 64, which according to the BMW DME list 1210.21-1b (DME connector X6000 for S50B32 engine) is a signal 'Air conditioning ready' from 'A115 Automatic Climate Control Unit pin 10' according to the DME wiring diagram. I have a new DME but obviously want to check the unit connected to pin 64 for problems to avoid damaging the new DME.
However I cannot find this unit - there is an A/C control unit with 3 knobs in the centre consol with nothing behind it but 'A115'? I cannot find it even on an internet search. Where is this unit? The car has air conditioning option 'S530A' - maybe it doesn't even have this unit? If so where is pin 64 connected to?
It has been a very exasperating time finding out most of my Bentley manual wiring diagram is incorrect and also my downloaded Z3M electrical troubleshooting manual is also incorrect concerning the DME. Trouble is that the correct DME wiring list (DME MS50, - 6 Cylinder S50 B32) is not model specific so doesn't have a component location list/diagram.
So if anyone can put me out of my misery and tell me exactly where DME pin 64 is connected to, I'd be soooooooooooooooo grateful!

I am confused. This thread started with the car not starting. Did you ever get it started? Is the above a new problem with the air conditioning? Frankie

 

[Steve Cooke]

I am confused. This thread started with the car not starting. Did you ever get it started? Is the above a new problem with the air conditioning? Frankie

Hi Frankie, I haven't tried to start the car. The burnt DME was found during fault finding of that 'no start' problem. The reason I am trying to trace the DME pin 64 ( goes to A/C system) is to make sure there is no other fault that would cause the new DME to burn again when I try to start the car.

 

[FRANKIE]

See if this does anything for you:
http://qcwo.com/technicaldomain/ews-deletion-chip
look for this image:

and then click on it. There might be some pics there that can help you. I know that it is and earlier car that yours but there might be something there that can help. Frankie

 

[FRANKIE]

Hi Frankie, I haven't tried to start the car. The burnt DME was found during fault finding of that 'no start' problem. The reason I am trying to trace the DME pin 64 ( goes to A/C system) is to make sure there is no other fault that would cause the new DME to burn again when I try to start the car.

This is what I was talking about in an earlier post to you:

By hot wiring the starter and spraying starter fluid into the air filter box, if the car starts and runs on the starting fluid (ignition is on "on") but doesn't run after the starting fluid is used up, its the bad battery in the key. Frankie

 

[FRANKIE]

Hi Frankie, I haven't tried to start the car. The burnt DME was found during fault finding of that 'no start' problem. The reason I am trying to trace the DME pin 64 ( goes to A/C system) is to make sure there is no other fault that would cause the new DME to burn again when I try to start the car.

The burnt pin might be related to the car not starting but probably not. I'd try to get the car started before you fix the pin so if it is related, you're not damaging anything new.

 

[oldcarman]

Try pulling the plug on the compressor and starting the car. Then check the plug to see if you have any spiking that would have caused the short originally. JIM

 

[Brian4]

After a lot of fault finding, the DME unit was found burnt inside. The burnt components/connector pin was pin 64, which according to the BMW DME list 1210.21-1b (DME connector X6000 for S50B32 engine) is a signal 'Air conditioning ready' from 'A115 Automatic Climate Control Unit pin 10' according to the DME wiring diagram. I have a new DME but obviously want to check the unit connected to pin 64 for problems to avoid damaging the new DME.
However I cannot find this unit - there is an A/C control unit with 3 knobs in the centre consol with nothing behind it but 'A115'? I cannot find it even on an internet search. Where is this unit? The car has air conditioning option 'S530A' - maybe it doesn't even have this unit? If so where is pin 64 connected to?
It has been a very exasperating time finding out most of my Bentley manual wiring diagram is incorrect and also my downloaded Z3M electrical troubleshooting manual is also incorrect concerning the DME. Trouble is that the correct DME wiring list (DME MS50, - 6 Cylinder S50 B32) is not model specific so doesn't have a component location list/diagram.
So if anyone can put me out of my misery and tell me exactly where DME pin 64 is connected to, I'd be soooooooooooooooo grateful!

Hi Steve

Looking at the wiring diag I have The air con recirculation/air operating unit which is connected to pin 64 on the DME unit are the switches on the dash which turn on aircon and/or recirculation. Mine looks some thing like this.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-e23-e...255?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item234db337ef

The one second from left.
http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/09/mcoupeconsole-550x412.jpg

Should be black with violet line.

 

[Steve Cooke]

Hi Steve

Looking at the wiring diag I have The air con recirculation/air operating unit which is connected to pin 64 on the DME unit are the switches on the dash which turn on aircon and/or recirculation. Mine looks some thing like this.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-e23-e...255?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item234db337ef

The one second from left.
http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/09/mcoupeconsole-550x412.jpg

Should be black with violet line.

Thanks, Brian. I have traced the wire to the 2 switches you mentioned, which needed refurbishment. Looking further along the same line (DME64) I found the wrong type of relay fitted into the K33a A/C control relay position. I was quite surprised to find different types of relay fit in the same sockets if they are rotated 180 degrees. The K33a relay found in place doesn't have coil diode protection as shown in the wiring diagram. I am thinking that the independent garage swopped relays around when originally fault finding. The relays are not marked with their 'K' numbers but do have a 3 digit number on them and have coloured cases, however this info is not in the wiring diagram. There is no sticker in the relay box lid so I am wondering how to tell the right type of relay is in the right position? When it stops raining I'll post a pic of the relay box with details of relay positions as found on receipt from the garage.