Car prices

Z Victor 1

Formerly "Ontiken1"
Supporter
British Zeds
Joined
May 4, 2015
Points
194
Location
Ripley,Derbyshire.
Model of Z
E 89 Z4 S drive 23i
Yes, lots of cars with high price tags, but what do they actually sell for? As for investment, it's the same for all 'classics', apart from condition, collectors always look for 'original specs' and low mileage. Whether that makes the car any better than a well looked after or modded car with normal mileage is irrelevant. Personally, I just want to enjoy owning and driving my Z3 so I'm not particularly bothered how much it will be worth when it has to go. Hopefully that won't be for a very long time!
 

Poprin

Zorg Legend
British Zeds
The M44 Massive
Joined
Jun 29, 2015
Points
68
Location
Telford, Shropshire
Model of Z
3.0 Roadster + *cough* MX5 project
I don't doubt that if the continued trend of classic / modern classic car values continue that Z3's will gain value. However because of the buzz around car price increases and the coverage showing people with stupid money spending stupid money on rare cars all of a sudden everyone thinks that because their car is 10+ years old its worth an extra 5 grand.

I'm sorry to break it to people but that is just not the case. For Z3's to see a significant price hike all the rot boxes and unloved cars need to start thinning out. At the moment they are still too plentiful in supply. I would say that since I've been looking for a 2.8 which was February last year I have seen 2.8 prices 'firm up' a bit. (PS I have a 3.0 now and I sure as hell did not pay 10k for it) So I think at the moment you would be hard pressed to get a 2.8 worth buying for sub 2K but it still can happen time to time if it needs a bit of work.

Case in point about asking prices this car was for sale when I started looking in February last year:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Z3-2-8-S-REG-53K-/332111836710?hash=item4d53687626:g:SvQAAOSwjDZYky0L

This has been for sale for months on end (As illustrated by the advert saying MOT 11/2016):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Z3-1-9-Roadster-/282342745415?hash=item41bcf06547:g:QBUAAOSwbYZXdoWz

This has been for sale for about 8 months:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Z3-2-...108822?hash=item33c93643d6:g:DcIAAOSw9mFWHN8S
 

oldcarman

Zorg Guru (V)
Supporter
Canadian Zeds
The M44 Massive
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Points
188
Location
Pine Falls Manitoba can.
Model of Z
1.9 M44
I agree, there are just too many z3 cars on the road in Britain and the UK as a whole for prices, for anything but a show car, to skyrocket any time soon! Around Canada they are few and far between and the prices are still fairly reasonable priced with ///M being far less than in the U.K. Case in point is @FRANKIE who was able to buy his for a fraction of the cost of one in the U.K. Where they are the only model commanding huge figures. Prices are all over the place in the U.K. In particular due to the numbers still in everyday use. As @t-tony says you can sell a car for whatever the buyer is willing to pay. @Sean d had a customer bring in an M5 and paid huge money for a rust bucket and was willing to keep feeding more and more money into a car that wasn't going to be much when finished. JMHO. JIM
 

Dino D

Zorg Guru (V)
British Zeds
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Points
176
Location
Kent
Model of Z
2.8 Manual
US //M cars with the 'S52' engine are very different to Euro ones. They only have 240bhp and are a development of the regular 3.0l and do not have individual throttle bodies etc.
Check the prices in the US of the S54 (M3 engine from an e46) and you will see they are very high.
 

FRANKIE

Zorg Guru (V)
American Zeds
The M44 Massive
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Points
193
Location
Egg Harbor Township, New Jersey, USA
Model of Z
Z3
US //M cars with the 'S52' engine are very different to Euro ones. They only have 240bhp and are a development of the regular 3.0l and do not have individual throttle bodies etc.
Check the prices in the US of the S54 (M3 engine from an e46) and you will see they are very high.
Now you have me curious about what engine I have in my car. By the way, I was looking at the e-bay hyperlinks above and reading the descriptions of the cars...............what's a V5 document?................Frankie
 

Dino D

Zorg Guru (V)
British Zeds
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Points
176
Location
Kent
Model of Z
2.8 Manual
Now you have me curious about what engine I have in my car. By the way, I was looking at the e-bay hyperlinks above and reading the descriptions of the cars...............what's a V5 document?................Frankie
This explains it @FRANKIE
I believe it was the cost of getting thee s50 through emission rules in the US that resulted in a US only engine:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=163292

What are the differences between the S50 and S52 engines?
The North American-spec powerplant, known as the S52, is based closely on the regular production M52 engine. Like that motor, the S52 is a six-cylinder with a cast iron block, aluminum head and four valves per cylinder, with two-stage VANOS variable valve timing on the intake strokes. Unique to the S52 is a bore of 86.4mm and stroke of 89.6mm for a total displacement of 3,152cc. The engine is rated at 240 hp (SAE) at 6,000rpm and 236 lb/ft of torque at 3,800 rpm.
In addition to the larger displacement, the S52 utilizes the following special M components:
-Ported and polished cylinder head
-Retuned VANOS variable valve timing for greater high-rpm power
-Heavy-duty valve springs
-More finely balanced camshafts
-Valve lifters, springs and spring seats with reduced mass
-Free-flowing intake and exhaust systems

The European-spec powerplant, known as the S50 B32, is a much more exotic unit. With a bore of 86.4mm and a stroke of 91mm, the S50 B32 has a total displacement of 3,201cc. Like the S52, it has an iron block and aluminum head with four valves per cylinder. However, the S50 B32 incorporates the following special features to allow it to produce an impressive 321 hp (DIN) at 7,400rpm and 258 lb/ft of torque at 3,250 rpm:
-Individual throttle plates for each cylinder
-Increased compression ratio to 11.3:1
-Advanced BMW/Siemens MSS50 engine management system able to compute 20 million instructions per second
-Double VANOS continuously variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust strokes
-Lightweight pistons
-Dual-mass flywheel
-Graphite-coated conrods
-Larger inlet valves
-Second oil pump
What are the differences between the S50 and S54 engines?
The S54 powerplant of the later M coupes is technically an evolution of the iron-block S50 B32 unit used in all European-spec M coupes built through June of 2000. Although the peak power and torque of the S54 (325 hp at 7,400 rpm and 261 lb/ft of torque at 4,900 rpm) are barely increased compared to the S50 B32 (321 hp at 7,400 rpm and 258 lb/ft of torque at 3,250 rpm), they share few major components and differ in many areas including:
-Increased cylinder bore to 87mm (from 86.1mm) for a new total displacement of 3,246cc (from 3,201cc)
-Modified camshafts
-High pressure Double VANOS continuously variable valve timing system with faster operation at high rpm
-Increased compression to 11.5:1 (from 11.3:1)
-More advanced BMW/Siemens MSS 54 engine management control
-Finger-type rocker arms for reduced reciprocating mass and friction
-One-piece aluminum head casting for lighter weight
-Scavenging oil pump to maintain pressure during heavy cornering

The S50 B32 unit can be identified by the "BMW M Power" inscription on its cam cover, while the S54 version contains only the "M" badge.
 

FRANKIE

Zorg Guru (V)
American Zeds
The M44 Massive
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Points
193
Location
Egg Harbor Township, New Jersey, USA
Model of Z
Z3
This explains it @FRANKIE
I believe it was the cost of getting thee s50 through emission rules in the US that resulted in a US only engine:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=163292

What are the differences between the S50 and S52 engines?
The North American-spec powerplant, known as the S52, is based closely on the regular production M52 engine. Like that motor, the S52 is a six-cylinder with a cast iron block, aluminum head and four valves per cylinder, with two-stage VANOS variable valve timing on the intake strokes. Unique to the S52 is a bore of 86.4mm and stroke of 89.6mm for a total displacement of 3,152cc. The engine is rated at 240 hp (SAE) at 6,000rpm and 236 lb/ft of torque at 3,800 rpm.
In addition to the larger displacement, the S52 utilizes the following special M components:
-Ported and polished cylinder head
-Retuned VANOS variable valve timing for greater high-rpm power
-Heavy-duty valve springs
-More finely balanced camshafts
-Valve lifters, springs and spring seats with reduced mass
-Free-flowing intake and exhaust systems

The European-spec powerplant, known as the S50 B32, is a much more exotic unit. With a bore of 86.4mm and a stroke of 91mm, the S50 B32 has a total displacement of 3,201cc. Like the S52, it has an iron block and aluminum head with four valves per cylinder. However, the S50 B32 incorporates the following special features to allow it to produce an impressive 321 hp (DIN) at 7,400rpm and 258 lb/ft of torque at 3,250 rpm:
-Individual throttle plates for each cylinder
-Increased compression ratio to 11.3:1
-Advanced BMW/Siemens MSS50 engine management system able to compute 20 million instructions per second
-Double VANOS continuously variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust strokes
-Lightweight pistons
-Dual-mass flywheel
-Graphite-coated conrods
-Larger inlet valves
-Second oil pump
What are the differences between the S50 and S54 engines?
The S54 powerplant of the later M coupes is technically an evolution of the iron-block S50 B32 unit used in all European-spec M coupes built through June of 2000. Although the peak power and torque of the S54 (325 hp at 7,400 rpm and 261 lb/ft of torque at 4,900 rpm) are barely increased compared to the S50 B32 (321 hp at 7,400 rpm and 258 lb/ft of torque at 3,250 rpm), they share few major components and differ in many areas including:
-Increased cylinder bore to 87mm (from 86.1mm) for a new total displacement of 3,246cc (from 3,201cc)
-Modified camshafts
-High pressure Double VANOS continuously variable valve timing system with faster operation at high rpm
-Increased compression to 11.5:1 (from 11.3:1)
-More advanced BMW/Siemens MSS 54 engine management control
-Finger-type rocker arms for reduced reciprocating mass and friction
-One-piece aluminum head casting for lighter weight
-Scavenging oil pump to maintain pressure during heavy cornering

The S50 B32 unit can be identified by the "BMW M Power" inscription on its cam cover, while the S54 version contains only the "M" badge.
I have to look up what Engine I have. I have a pile of receipts next to the computer that I keep in order so as to be able to look up any transaction I've done on the computer. I just found the information I first received on the ///M that @miller1098 and I picked up in March 2015. It is WBSCK9348YLC92061. Le t me see where I can plug that in to get some information........later......Frankie
 

FRANKIE

Zorg Guru (V)
American Zeds
The M44 Massive
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Points
193
Location
Egg Harbor Township, New Jersey, USA
Model of Z
Z3
This explains it @FRANKIE
I believe it was the cost of getting thee s50 through emission rules in the US that resulted in a US only engine:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=163292

What are the differences between the S50 and S52 engines?
The North American-spec powerplant, known as the S52, is based closely on the regular production M52 engine. Like that motor, the S52 is a six-cylinder with a cast iron block, aluminum head and four valves per cylinder, with two-stage VANOS variable valve timing on the intake strokes. Unique to the S52 is a bore of 86.4mm and stroke of 89.6mm for a total displacement of 3,152cc. The engine is rated at 240 hp (SAE) at 6,000rpm and 236 lb/ft of torque at 3,800 rpm.
In addition to the larger displacement, the S52 utilizes the following special M components:
-Ported and polished cylinder head
-Retuned VANOS variable valve timing for greater high-rpm power
-Heavy-duty valve springs
-More finely balanced camshafts
-Valve lifters, springs and spring seats with reduced mass
-Free-flowing intake and exhaust systems

The European-spec powerplant, known as the S50 B32, is a much more exotic unit. With a bore of 86.4mm and a stroke of 91mm, the S50 B32 has a total displacement of 3,201cc. Like the S52, it has an iron block and aluminum head with four valves per cylinder. However, the S50 B32 incorporates the following special features to allow it to produce an impressive 321 hp (DIN) at 7,400rpm and 258 lb/ft of torque at 3,250 rpm:
-Individual throttle plates for each cylinder
-Increased compression ratio to 11.3:1
-Advanced BMW/Siemens MSS50 engine management system able to compute 20 million instructions per second
-Double VANOS continuously variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust strokes
-Lightweight pistons
-Dual-mass flywheel
-Graphite-coated conrods
-Larger inlet valves
-Second oil pump
What are the differences between the S50 and S54 engines?
The S54 powerplant of the later M coupes is technically an evolution of the iron-block S50 B32 unit used in all European-spec M coupes built through June of 2000. Although the peak power and torque of the S54 (325 hp at 7,400 rpm and 261 lb/ft of torque at 4,900 rpm) are barely increased compared to the S50 B32 (321 hp at 7,400 rpm and 258 lb/ft of torque at 3,250 rpm), they share few major components and differ in many areas including:
-Increased cylinder bore to 87mm (from 86.1mm) for a new total displacement of 3,246cc (from 3,201cc)
-Modified camshafts
-High pressure Double VANOS continuously variable valve timing system with faster operation at high rpm
-Increased compression to 11.5:1 (from 11.3:1)
-More advanced BMW/Siemens MSS 54 engine management control
-Finger-type rocker arms for reduced reciprocating mass and friction
-One-piece aluminum head casting for lighter weight
-Scavenging oil pump to maintain pressure during heavy cornering

The S50 B32 unit can be identified by the "BMW M Power" inscription on its cam cover, while the S54 version contains only the "M" badge.
This came up on the VIN:
Vehicle information

VIN WBSCK9348YLC92061
Type code CK93
Type M-ROADST (USA)
E series E36 (7)
Series 3
Type ROADST
Steering LL
Doors 2
Engine S52
Displacement 3.20
Power 179
Drive HECK
Transmission MECH
Colour IMOLAROT 2 (405)
Upholstery LEDER WALK NAPPA/IMOLAROT (Q6IM)
Prod.date 1999-10-15


Vehicle options

S260 Side airbag for driver/passenger
S388 Softtop, black
S395 Rollover protection system
S398 Softtop, electromech. semiautom.
S442 Cup holder
S530 Air conditioning
S540 Cruise control
S658 Radio BMW Business CD RDS
S674 Hi-Fi System Harman Kardon
S692 Preparation, BMW 6-CD changer I-bus
S818 Battery master switch

Vehicle options

S209 Differential lock 25%
S243 Airbag for front passenger
S314 Door mirror / driver's lock, heated
S354 Green windscreen, green shade band
S481 Sports seat
S494 Seat heating driver/passenger
S710 M sports steering wheel, multifunction
S785 White direction indicator lights
S845 Acoustic belt warning
S853 Language version English
S992 Control of number-plate attachment
 

oldcarman

Zorg Guru (V)
Supporter
Canadian Zeds
The M44 Massive
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Points
188
Location
Pine Falls Manitoba can.
Model of Z
1.9 M44
I won't disagree regarding the difference between the UK-USA spec cars but I am able to buy a ///M 325 hp car here for under 20k$$whereas they sell for over that number in £'s so with the current monetary exchange rate is way cheaper than the cost in the U.K. Is it exactly the same car, no but when I can buy a coupe outfitted with the M power train for anywhere from 12k$$-under 20k$$ it appears to me that buyers in the U.K. are willing to spend big money compared to the rest of the world. JMHO. JIM
 
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