Z3M or Z3.0l

[Pete2]

Hi all, not sure if this is in the right place but hey ho!
This post is to possibly stimulate a discussion and get some advice for if I go ahead with a purchase.
I've been looking for a Z3M for some time now and been watching the market for even longer having owned a 2.2 for a year.
The Z3Ms that have been for sale since the early part of this year are STILL for sale so either owners are asking silly prices just to see if anyone is prepared to pay their asking price, or nobody wants them. I'm talking prices from £19k upwards. I am therefore wondering whether to bother with a Z3M and look for a 3.0l instead. This would give me more car for the money, no potential double vanos issue, and a car that should I ever need to sell be one that is still in the reach of the normal classic car owner without having to sell a body part!!

Your thought please.....
Pete

 

[Woodsta888]

Depends whether you want a low mileage minter or a higher mileage one. 'Kite flying' prices are always going to happen if people don't really need to sell. It's only worth what someone wants to pay. Seen M's go for a little over £10k with <£100k on Ebay. Expensive ones tend to be minters or dealer prices

The M's will always be the collectors and investment model of the Z3. Maybe incoming recession will see some having to be let go by their owners. It's all down to the condition of the underside/sills.

3.0i is a facelift with different backend. So if you prefer the look of the original wide arse like the M, then the 2.8 would be for the looks.

Whatever you buy, whilst SH is good, the condition of the underside would be key, though what you need to see is hidden by the sills and wheel arch liners. Area in around where the rear beam is attached to the body will give a good indication. And the general state of the running gear.

BEst bet is a forum member as one sold on here last @ £12,750. SO keep an eye out and on other forums for cars from enthusiastic owners.

If you are handy with the spanners then refurbishing the underside is within reach of most OR you can use one of the zedsheds (forum members) who usually manage anything mechanical for you. Some great guides on here and experiences that gave me the confidence to do my own.

I'd hold out for an M as over time, that'll be the model that will hold or increase in value as all other BMW M's. Good luck

 

[Pingu]

I think you answered your own question.

A ZM is not for you if you are worried about the potential cost of a VANOS repair. A VANOS repair costs about 2500 miles of fuel for an M or 4000 miles of fuel for a 3 litre.

You can run one on the cheap by either doing ALL your work (including VANOS repairs), or by not doing the repairs and extending all the servicing beyond their limits.

EVERYTHING on an M is more expensive. VED, tyres, brakes, insurance, fuel. Fuel is VERY expensive. Much higher fuel consumption and super unleaded makes it about 40% more than a 3 litre per driven mile. VED is £25 per month, more if car is post Mar 2001. Insurance is about 30% more than a 3 litre. Tyres and brakes won't last as long.

If you plan on driving the car, buying the best will only save you in the short term. Added miles kill the resale value. Mine is over 140,000, but it is as good as one that has only done 70,000, yet it is worth a lot less. The condition of M-specific stuff is critical. All the Z3 stuff on the car can be easily and cheaply replaced. M stuff will cost you several times more than the Z3 equivalent, and will be harder to source.

Don't buy an M unless you can handle an unexpected £1000 bill, even if that means parking the car on your drive for six months while you wait for the parts or the money to appear.

 

[Richard29]

I would love an M version, but settled for a low mileage 3.0. The 3.0 is excellent and cheaper long term i hope.

 

[Nodzed]

Z3Ms are very hard on the wallet if you buy one that needs love and want to get it right and even harder on the wallet if you buy one that's had all the work done. If you get a Z3M that needs work, drink heavily before buying the parts .................... trust me, it helps a lot, you will care less until the following mornings realisation of the condition of your bank account.

 

[Sajk]

I bought a z4m simply because the z3m was not available where I live. I would have preferred a z3m. For me it was about owning something with an s54 in it. A style of engine that will never ever come again and to me deserves preservation and celebration. Yes it comes with an extra cost and only you can determine if the special nature of the s54 is worth it to you. If you are planning to keep it forever I would go M.

The 3.0 is a lovely car and with a little work can easily push 250 at the crank. Stock it goes just fine though.

 

[Pete2]

Thanks for all your replies. I test drove one last week. When started it ran as though it was missing on one cylinder. Blip the throttle and it then ran fine. It did this every time it was started. When I floored it on a duel carriageway, it did not accelerate particularly quick. In fact it was a little disappointing. So either I was expecting more and this is good as it got, or there was something not quite right with it. I ride bikes as well and it's hard to match their acceleration!
SAJK, I have not seen a roadster for sale with an S54 engine. They are all the S50 so owners are keeping them I guess. You have apoint about the Z4M though. Cheaper, better refined, better ride, etc etc but doesn't match the Z3 looks IMO. Jury's out ATM, but am going to look at a 3.0l sometime soon.

Used BMW Z3 2002 Blue in Northampton, Northamptonshire | Zachary Luke Cars

Used BMW Z3 in Northampton, Northamptonshire only £9990, 2002, 69351 miles, Petrol, Manual, Blue - Call Zachary Luke Cars on 07469 244543

www.zacharylukecarslimited.co.uk

 

[BuxtonZ3Guy]

Get a 3.0i. Miles cheaper than an M, cheaper to run and just as much fun. With the exception of the M they didn't make many 3.0i. when compared to the other models. The appreciating nature of the M will, without doubt, drag up the value of the 3.0i. I certainly would not swap my 3.0i and 10k+ for an M. Simply no value or sense in the deal.

 

[mwpe]

This was the question I had when I bought mine in 2008. an M coupe and my 3.0 were the same price, I eventually decided on the 3.0 as it has adequate performance and I expected it to be more reliable and cheaper to run. It was the right choice for me as I doubt if an M would have provided the 140,000 miles of faultless fun which I have had from the 3.0.

 

[Pingu]

Thanks for all your replies. I test drove one last week. When started it ran as though it was missing on one cylinder. Blip the throttle and it then ran fine. It did this every time it was started. When I floored it on a duel carriageway, it did not accelerate particularly quick. In fact it was a little disappointing. So either I was expecting more and this is good as it got, or there was something not quite right with it. I ride bikes as well and it's hard to match their acceleration!
SAJK, I have not seen a roadster for sale with an S54 engine. They are all the S50 so owners are keeping them I guess. You have apoint about the Z4M though. Cheaper, better refined, better ride, etc etc but doesn't match the Z3 looks IMO. Jury's out ATM, but am going to look at a 3.0l sometime soon.

Used BMW Z3 2002 Blue in Northampton, Northamptonshire | Zachary Luke Cars

Used BMW Z3 in Northampton, Northamptonshire only £9990, 2002, 69351 miles, Petrol, Manual, Blue - Call Zachary Luke Cars on 07469 244543

www.zacharylukecarslimited.co.uk

I suspect the VANOS is not working properly. There should be no hesitation if you bury the throttle in 2nd from 1500rpm. Below that rpm and you need to apply the throttle with more finesse or it may try to pink, but the electronics will stop it.

This is how it should accelerate. It always makes me smile...

 

[Nodzed]

I would say anyone who has driven a sorted Z3M on full chat would be impressed.

 

[GazHyde]

sorted Z3M

Key word is sorted. There is a wide gap between what's usually available on the market and one that's ready to rock. For my Z4M it's about £6.5k so far!

 

[Nodzed]

Key word is sorted. There is a wide gap between what's usually available on the market and one that's ready to rock. For my Z4M it's about £6.5k so far!

I know your pain as you know

 

[Lee]

I would take a step back and decide what you actually want from the Z3, is it a quest for more power or the rarity of a Z3M ?

Like said above one is far more costly to maintain than the other unless you find a sorted Z3M that's had the vanos rebuilt or replaced.

 

[Nodzed]

I have not seen a roadster for sale with an S54 engine

Even more rare than the S50 somewhere in the area of only 73 S54 Z3M roadsters for the UK markets and a hell of a lot more expensive and debatable if the extra cost over the S50 is worth it unless its super rarity you are after.

 

[Pete2]

I'm not bothered about rarity. I like acceleration and handling but top speed not important. I can do most servicing on a car but not major mechanical repairs. It will be driven at every opportunity and not just stored away as an investment. It will be driven at every opportunity but not in salt and only with the roof down, unless of course I get caught out in a deluge. It will be garaged and well looked after. I owned a range rover once for a year so I'm no stranger to a car spending more time in the garage being repaired than on the road, and I don't want to go down that road again. So I guess this is really pointing to a 3.0l isn't it? Not much out there!! So patience is the virtue. But if a "sorted" M comes along for sensible money then I may still be tempted.

 

[Richard29]

I wouldnt be too put off by an auto, this will widen your search a bit. The auto box is very good on 3.0 though not for the purist.

 

[Stingy1]

Hi all, not sure if this is in the right place but hey ho!
This post is to possibly stimulate a discussion and get some advice for if I go ahead with a purchase.
I've been looking for a Z3M for some time now and been watching the market for even longer having owned a 2.2 for a year.
The Z3Ms that have been for sale since the early part of this year are STILL for sale so either owners are asking silly prices just to see if anyone is prepared to pay their asking price, or nobody wants them. I'm talking prices from £19k upwards. I am therefore wondering whether to bother with a Z3M and look for a 3.0l instead. This would give me more car for the money, no potential double vanos issue, and a car that should I ever need to sell be one that is still in the reach of the normal classic car owner without having to sell a body part!!

Your thought please.....
Pete

I Have a 2002 3.0 sport . Its a minter and put of curiosity I asked a dealer how much cash plus mine for a 98 z3m he had with 98k miles "awaiting prep and service" mine has about 36k genuine miles, fully specced. He wanted 15k plus mine. Well, I would considered 7k plus mine to have been his answer ..... And still I wouldn't have. What's the point. I don't use mine flat out when I use it , but it's got a real kick in sport or semi manual mode . It looks in some ways better than the "M" . I thought "cheeky tw#t" at 15k plus mine for a worse condition M. If I was that bothered about the power I would , and maybe might, fit a supercharger for 350 bhp. For 3500. Even then going down the twin exit exhaust route for 800 (with proper trimming of the rear skirt) , and upgrading brakes for 800, still cheaper than a M and quicker..... Only prob is don't want to ruin value of mine, so will only do if deffo never selling. Have a mate who is shocked I fitted style 68 wheels as he only likes originality. Will keep the standard split rims too in case I ever did sell.....doubtful.

 

[Stingy1]

This..... And even numberplate valued at 2500 "Goldeneye" theme

 

[Pete2]

I Have a 2002 3.0 sport . Its a minter and put of curiosity I asked a dealer how much cash plus mine for a 98 z3m he had with 98k miles "awaiting prep and service" mine has about 36k genuine miles, fully specced. He wanted 15k plus mine. Well, I would considered 7k plus mine to have been his answer ..... And still I wouldn't have. What's the point. I don't use mine flat out when I use it , but it's got a real kick in sport or semi manual mode . It looks in some ways better than the "M" . I thought "cheeky tw#t" at 15k plus mine for a worse condition M. If I was that bothered about the power I would , and maybe might, fit a supercharger for 350 bhp. For 3500. Even then going down the twin exit exhaust route for 800 (with proper trimming of the rear skirt) , and upgrading brakes for 800, still cheaper than a M and quicker..... Only prob is don't want to ruin value of mine, so will only do if deffo never selling. Have a mate who is shocked I fitted style 68 wheels as he only likes originality. Will keep the standard split rims too in case I ever did sell.....doubtful.

HaHaHa.
Tested the water with my 2.2 minter (see original post) with 69k against a 98 M 70k I think on the clock. £2.2k for mine. One of the spot welds in the boot had failed as well and was going rusty. You know, I'm beginning to think for the money and what I'll use it for a 3.0l might be a better option. It has been really useful listening to everyone's opinions. I've only posted twice on here so far but response form members has been great.

There is a 3.0l on ebay at the moment, wants £12k for it which IMO is a bit steep, but may have a look as I'm in the area next week.