Window switch help needed

[jaguartvr]

As gookah solved my door locking problem I thoght I would try my luck with a window switch problem.
I need to delete my plastic centre console window switches for dash mounted toggle switches on/off/on (up/off/down).
The wires on the original switches are
Left
brown
grey/red trace
white/green trace
blue

right
brown
grey/red trace
grey/white trace
black/yellow trace

Do I use a single or double pole switch and which wire would go where.
Can anyone advise


Many thanks

 

[NZ00Z3]

It's all clearly laid out in the wiring diagrams. Here is a picture from one of the wiring diagram sets. Check the set that is for your car to be sure.

 

[jaguartvr]

Thanks for that but far too complicated for my little brain.

I think I have solved it, I was struggling with 4 wires and 6 terminals



That sorts out my double pole toggle switch but I also need to fit a single pole rotary switch to another car.
This is on/off/on and has a window winder screwed to the rotary knob, push for window up and pull for window down, but how do I go about wiring this up? 3 terminals and 4 wires.

 

[gookah]

Not quite as straightforward as you have drawn.
The original switches are 5 position, allowing the one touch function.
That can be unused, indicated as I believe in the way you have drawn your switch

The original switches provide inputs to the ZKE.
The outputs from the ZKE to the motors are via relays.
in the rest position the motor has earth to both terminals, one or the other changes to positive depending on whether you need up or down

The ZKE also receives a feedback from an encoder on the motor, which pulses as it moves.
If it stops receiving these pulses, it cuts and reverses the relays because it believes the window has come up against an obstruction. This is why you have to 'teach' the window the closed and open positions before the one touch will work. it then knows not to reverse when it reaches those two positions.

You can do it the way you have drawn by going to the outputs from the ZKE, but you have no protection from overload if something jams in the mechanism

or you could use the inputs to the ZKE.

the 4 wires on each switch are as follows:

Drivers switch
Brown.......................... Earth
Black/White................. Close signal to ZKE
Violet/White................. Open signal to ZKE
Grey/Red...................... illumination for switch (+12v on switching lights on)


Passengers switch
Brown.......................... Earth
Blue/Green................. Close signal to ZKE
White/Green................. Open signal to ZKE
Grey/Red...................... illumination for switch (+12v on switching lights on)


Ignore the illumination wires (if you wish)
Just connect an earth to the signal for the relevant movement, and it will go in that direction for as long as you hold the earth on it.

The one touch is provided by a second earth pulse to the opposite wire, just after the first earth signal to the first wire. The direction of movement depends on which order the two earth pulses are given to the relevant wires.

the rotary switch will work by providing and earth to the relevant ZKE input wires, but at the switches!
To do at the door though, is more tricky as that is direct to the motor and does not take switching earths on and off into account, Better to run twin cable from the door back to the original switch harness

 

[jaguartvr]

Thanks for the advice but now I am totally confused.
The switch is not illuminated so I can ignore that wire, that leaves me with 3, earth and open/close.

The existing bmw switch is not far from where I plan to position the new switch so would rather connect to the old plugs than the zke unit.
Not bothered about one touch close. Any idea about how to wire the pictured switch up doing it this way?


I presume that the rotary switch will be simple as it is 3 prongs so will just need the 3 wires, up, down and earth or am I hoping for too much?
I was hoping to hack into the mirror loom for the door mounted rotary switch as the door mirrors have been deleted. This way when the door is removed for painting the wiring all goes through the door connector.
Just need to try and find the mirror wires as close to the centre console as possible.


Thanks for your help

 

[gookah]

if you use the wires from the original switches these are the input signals sent to the ZKE.
you only need to use 3 of the prongs on one side of your switch.

but first you need to find the common prong on your switch, I cant see quite if that is a faint diagram on the side?
Is the middle prong the common one? ie if you put a meter on it does it connect a circuit between it and the top prong if you switch up? and the centre prong and the bottom prong if you flick the switch down?



You need to put the earth wire (brown from the original switch) to the common prong,

so assuming it is the middle one then:
the open wire to the bottom prong (violet/white drivers side)
the close wire to the top prong (black/white drivers side)

do the same for a second (separate) switch.
Brown to common prong
open wire to the bottom prong (white/green passenger side)
close wire to the top prong (blue/green passenger side)

 

[jaguartvr]

Brilliant, not only am I now confident that I can wire them up, I also almost understand how it works.

 

[jaguartvr]

Hoping to push my luck and ask for some more help. I have a window winder attached to a sprung on-off-on switch. I can get this to work from Gookah's help. However what I would like to do is mount my new window switch on the door and use the old mirror loom to connect to the window switches. This way the connections are all in place on the main door connector (doors are on and off for the kit and for painting).


The door mirror wiring on the doors is
drivers
green/black
blue/black
blue/white
black/white

passenger
blue/green
blue/white
blue/black
green/black


I just need 3 wires from each to connect. What I need to know is where these wires go so that I can cut them and join them to the old window switch wires. I know that on both sides they go into the corners of the foot wells but it is such a hard place to get too and with my eyesight almost impossible to see the colours. Where do they go to that would be easier to get too? Do they go anywhere near the XKE box as that was quite simple to get to for my emergency release wire.

 

[gookah]

OK so if you want to use the mirror wiring you need to do the following
You will have the passenger side wiring going from the passenger door mirror, though the cabin and into the drivers door, up to the mirror switch,
The drivers door mirror however, will only go from the mirror switch to the drivers door mirror, it doesn't go back into the cabin.

So you will have to use the passenger side harness cut it in the middle of the car somewhere (wherever it runs, I'm not sure).
Use 2 of the wires that come from the drivers door for your drivers side switch,
and 2 of the wires that come from the passenger door for your passengers side switch.


your passenger mirror wire colours that will go through from one side of the car to the other are as follows:
blue/green
blue/white
blue/black
green/black

If you cut the connectors off the original window switches, you will then need to get the mirror wires, to the wires that are left (they end up back at the ZKE)

the passenger side original window switch
Brown (earth) wire, don't use it for these type window switches, instead just use a separate connection from your common prong on your window switch to the door metal casing somewhere)
(Use the side of the mirror harness that goes to the passenger door)
Connect the blue/green 'close' wire, via the blue/green passenger mirror wire to the 'close window' prong on your passenger window switch
Connect the white/green 'open' wire via the blue/white mirror wire to the 'window open' prong on your passenger window switch

Drivers side original window switch:
Brown (earth) wire, dont use it for your window switches, again just use a separate connection from your common prong on your window switch to the door metal casing somewhere)
(Use the side of the mirror harness that goes to the drivers door)
Connect the original window switch violet/white 'open' wire, via the blue/black mirror wire that goes to the 'window open' prong on your drivers window switch
Connect the black/white 'close' wire, via the green/black mirror wire to the 'close window' prong on your drivers window switch

hope that helps.
Did you do the other car with the toggle switches OK?

 

[DaveP]

Brilliant thread. Thanks Steve for asking and Pete for the bloody marvellous answers. Will be back this one day.

Dave

 

[jaguartvr]

Brilliant reply, makes sense and should make it much easier to wire up. I am finding it hard to see some of the colours on the wire when they are out of the light, I may resort to taking pictures of all 3 of the plugs on the XKE unit so I can blow them up. I will use a continuity tester to make sure that I have the right wire before cutting them. I do like the tip on the ground wire at the window switch.

The toggle switches came through from CBS but they weren't sping loaded so had to go back so I will wire both up with the fake window winder switches. The hardest part of this was to sort out the correct wires and where they run to, this has been sorted out by Pete, thanks very much. No rain forecast today so I will make a start.

Dave, glad you find it useful, I had been posting all my build details on madabout but since they had to close membership due to hacking, there have been no new members or builds so it has become a dead forum. Hopefully, they will get it sorted, at the moment for a kit builder the madabout site is very good but for information about the Z3 this forum can't be beaten. I wonder if a kit section could be added for Z3 & Z4 builds only? That way purists won't get upset when I start chopping up another Z3. Many options 250swb, 250 California, 275, Cobra, Bertini. 507 and Corvette in the pipeline. The Z3 makes such a good donor so come on..........get chopping

 

[jaguartvr]

What a bloody job!
Started on the passenger side.
I was looking for 2 wires that come from the door mirror, as pointed out by gookah I needed 2 out of these
blue/green
blue/white
blue/black
green/black

I was looking around the XKE unit but could find none of these colour combinations so I decided to take the speaker out and have a look in there.

As you can see blue/black and green/black are clearly visible.
I did a continuity test from inside the door to make doubly sure.
I then ran 2 core from the passenger window switch, blue/green and white green
to the 2 connections in the speaker hole. Ithen attached the wires inside the door to my new switch and ran an earth from the common terminal (A) to and earth screw, moment of truth, it onlt bloody works!
I then ran a second cable from the original switch, this time using the earth as well, this is tucked up by the dashboard so that a second switch can be added. A sprung toggle will do fine, this way I can open the passenger window from the drivers seat.
And here we have the desired result, a traditional window winder operating electric windows and a pull door opener as well.

All I have to do now is the other side but beer break first.

Beer break over

Well chuffed, drivers side all wired up with no problems, again I used the mirror loom from the door
green/black
blue/black
blue/white
black/white

Picked the first 2 wires that I could find in the speaker aperture and ran a new cable inside the dash and out to the driver's window switch.
This had been a job that I was dreading so many thanks to Gookah, if it wasn't for him I would still be under the dash putting out small fires!

 

[gookah]

so what have you got planned for me next?
I await the 'just pushing my luck again' next thread ..

Remote roof close?

(no it doesn't do the latches, but it stops me getting soaked, cos I can wait until it stops raining. It works from 100metres away and/or in the house)



remote engine start?

wiring up the roof tell-tail light on the instrument cluster:

it helps to identify the location of a fault if the roof doesn't move with the buttons




remote close of open windows?
no video for that yet.

front camera?
rear camera?
Alexa in the car to open gates and garage door?



I am toying with adding a rain sensor to close the roof.

 

[jaguartvr]

You're just being flash now! Rain controlled roof closure

I thought I would share a picture of my replacement dash and instruments


All the new toggle switches will sit just under the centre instruments. As you have offered to help it would be stupid of me not to bite your hand off.

I want to try and keep the switches as traditional toggle switches or another traditional style. You can get toggle switches on ebay that have a small LED warning light built in, I was going to use these for the fog and spotlight bulbs.

Hazard switch I was going to position this as low as possible on the dash to try and hide it and use the existing switch as I don't think a toggle switch could be made to work.

DSC switch, can't see myself ever turning it off so I was just going to hide it behind the dash.

Aircon switch, looks very complicated so again was going to just leave it switched on and hide it behind the dash unless you can think of a way of using a toggle? I was thinking of leaving it on but one wire to a toggle switch so this would turn it off and on.

Heated seats I have MGB seats fitted with eBay heated pads.They have a small switch that I was going to mount in the BMW plastic seat base. The MGB seats are mounted to the existing BMW seat base. I was thinking of wiring it to the BMW heating switches but they are too modern.

Roof switch I was just going to extend the wires to the dash and fit a sprung up/off/down toggle switch.


I do need to do something about the boot opening, I was hoping to connect it to a momentry switch that when it was pressed it released the boot. The boot catch would need to be mounted on the body not in the lid so that an emergency release cable could be fitted.
At the moment it works on a bicycle cable, bent brackets dodgy return spings and a wing and a prayer. It works but won't for long. I will get some sketches drawn to give you an idea.

Once again thanks for your help, the emergency release and window switches have been doing my head in for ages.

 

[Jonah1066]

Hi gookah, recently followed one of your previous threads on aftermarket keyless entry which worked perfectly, i since worked how to make indicators flash at the same time , but I can’t figure out how to make the windows roll up , any help will be appreciated,