what thermostat???

[David Cullen]

the thermostat I used initially was a QH, I am going to write to them and tell them what happened
I got a new one the other day, will fit tomorrow, call me stupid but its the same QH one again :-/

 

[David Cullen]

ok, so the latest on this saga is that I am still driving around with no stat in the car, no problems but not right so not happy... have been on to QH re the first sat and am waiting for some manager to come back from holidays next week to deal with my problem... stat two was dropped off to micks garage this morning and after a few choice words with them via e-mail it is being sent back to QH tomorrow and will undergo testing to see if its faulty...??? as I told them, I didn't work in the car, its faulty, what more do you want....
anyway, out of all the mails ets I got one strange thing, the car is listed for electric fan, ie. when they put in the reg number the other thermostat came up, the single pipe one.... could this be possible? you recon someone changed it at some stage?
either way, I don't think it makes any odds, it will still work fine in its current state, right?

 

[t-tony]

Main thing is that it doesn't over heat mate, for the time being, until Mr. QH gets back to you with his excuse!

 

[David Cullen]

well this is it Tony, I of corse am second guessing myself and I guess just looking for answers

 

[oldcarman]

It's frustrating but be patient, you'll get it sorted out. See what the result from the manufacturer is and go from there. JIM

 

[zedonist]

QH won't come back to you with an excuse, they will offer a working part, if they can't justify the original is not working, personally I would not run the car without a thermostat, as it is there to ensure the engine warms up and expands uniformaly.

 

[oldcarman]

I agree with Zedonist, you are not running your engine at the operating temp it was designed for so your running the risk of taking in too rich a fuel as the engine is likely running about 10-20 degrees cooler than optimal. I'm not sure the sensors will accommodate this fact and things could start going a bit haywire from incorrect readings. This is just my opinion after many years of dealing with sticking chokes on carbs causing problems. JIM

 

[zedonist]

You are correct Jim, the engine will run on start up settings all the time, which will mean running too rich. It won't turn to passive sensor mode until all parameters are reading ok, and in this case they won't.

 

[oldcarman]

David, your milage must be way down as you're pushing so much more gas than needed. Have you noticed any soot on the tip of your exhaust pipe? This also plays hard on your O2 sensors and catalytic converter. Pick up anew thermostat and test it several times allowing it to cool right down between tests to ensure it's functioning properly. If so install it and see where that takes you. JIM

 

[vintage42]

... you are not running your engine at the operating temp it was designed for so your running the risk of taking in too rich a fuel as the engine is likely running about 10-20 degrees cooler than optimal. I'm not sure the sensors will accommodate this fact and things could start going a bit haywire from incorrect readings...

My M44 engine temperature is around 170 in sedate cruising in mild weather. It will rise to 177 if I slow or have a couple of stop and go's.
In my two-year ownership the engine has gone 7,415 miles on 258 gallons for an average of almost 29 mpg. Several tanks were 30 and 31 mpg, and one tank was 33 mpg.

 

[zedonist]

To clarify what Jim is saying, the BMW ECU on start up applies a generic performance map until all sensors report normal operating parameters, when they report ok, the ECU map is based on readings from sensors and continually changes to ensure optimum operating parameters. If one sensor is not reporting, then the grneric map is maintained, this could make you use more fuel, run rich etc.

 

[t-tony]

I understand where you and Jim are coming from Rich,but I think the car will eventually get to operating temperature. But not as quickly as it should with a thermostat fitted I agree. Dave is only suggesting running without a stat till he gets something sorted with QH. I don't think it will harm anything in the short term. I'm very interested to hear what the QH man has to say.

 

[zedonist]

It's the little things Tony

 

[oldcarman]

I understand where you and Jim are coming from Rich,but I think the car will eventually get to operating temperature. But not as quickly as it should with a thermostat fitted I agree. Dave is only suggesting running without a stat till he gets something sorted with QH. I don't think it will harm anything in the short term. I'm very interested to hear what the QH man has to say.

I agree but I wouldn't be waiting too long till there's a thermostat in place. But, that said better running a bit cooler than overheating just not for prolonged period. It doesn't take long for carbon to start building up on plugs, O2 sensors before false readings start causing adjustments to be made that can cause damage. I also would like to hear the results from QH. JIM

 

[David Cullen]

thanks for the replies guys, I don't have a second car, this is my daily so have to run it, I understand the implications of doing so but have no choice, this is why I am putting pressure on micks garage and QH themselves, I was told by one of the MG guys that dropping a stat into a cup of boiling is not a proper test and wont work.... seriously?? ive been doing this for years and have found good and bad stats this way...
The fuel costs are fine at the moment, not much difference to be honest...I am concerned about the above mentioned and sweating engine components, I will keep you guys posted on upcoming events ;-)

 

[David Cullen]

so... update on this, first thermostat I am still in talks with QH about and they are trying to fob me off big time for the past two weeks, sorry guys, aint going to happen ;-)
second thermostat has been replaced by micks garage, again after a lot of e-mails tooing and froing I got them to replace it, they said it would be replaced with a QH stat but it seems I have gotten a Gates one so happy days ;-)
QH are saying that the company was taken over this year and the item I got is no longer part of their range and as such, them being the new company cant stand by the product.... I am saying that it is or was a QH product and as such regardless of takeover or whatever they should stand by the product, buying over QH they have inherited any past and present business, am I right? regardless, as a customer to QH or whoever I am entitled to have a faulty product replaced or reimbursed, no?

 

[David Cullen]

:-/

 

[Cooper]

Hmmm. My understanding is that if they sold it to you then they take responsibility. If they no longer had faith in their product they should have recalled all items in stock and written them off. You have consumer rights in England, well I assume you do!

 

[zedonist]

You are correct Dave, they own the good and the bad of the company, and as long as the item is within their warranty period they have to respond, and to be honest even if it is outside the warranty period they should I it is down to faulty workmanship and materials. There just applying tactics to make you give up, standard practice.

 

[David Cullen]

thanks guys, I knew they were trying to get rid of me so my last e-mail was worded a bit stronger and touched on legal, also had a few lines about customer care and company ethos etc, today I get a mail that has totally turned around and has contradicted the other e-mails... I guess they know im not going anywhere lol
re the consumer rights Cooper, do I have any? I am in Ireland, I have seen it before with SKY, some people here were having terrible trouble with them and tried chasing consumer rights and ombudsman etc and got nowhere, apparently SKY are their own entity and not governed by purchases outside of England....