Upgrading Z3 2.2L brakes - worth it?

[NabsNabsNabs]

Hey all,

My 2.2L Sport Z3 is in need of new front pads and discs, so given I am about to replace I am considering upgrading if I can, and its not too expensive....and also only if its worth it.

Reading around the forums I see lots of people upgrading from the 1.9L->3.0L set requiring new Discs, Calipers and Carriers. I couldn't find much info upgrading from the 2.2L->3.0L kit however.

As I understand the 3.0L runs 300 x 20 mm front discs, the 2.2L runs 286 x 20mm front discs.

My questions are:

• Would the upgrade even be noticeable ( over new 2.2L kit )? I'm driving A/B roads on the odd tour around the country.
• Do I only need the calliper carriers to make this work? Or is this a straight swap for just discs?
• I'm a novice at doing car DIY, if carrier switch is required is this an easy thing to do?
• Do I also need to change the pad sensor at the same time or can I re-use?

Not really into going overboard and creating something difficult or expensive to do, just given I have the expense shall I just do a marginal upgrade at the same time?

Help much appreciated!

Cheers

Billy ( Nabs )

 

[swamper]

First thing i would do is check that it will fit under your wheels?
the pad sensor should be generic..
Changing the carriers are easer than changing the caliper IMO (only 2 bolts) but if they have never been off you might run into problems.
however....you may have more success upgrading the pads and adding braded brake hoses instead of the whole brakes.
just a thought..!

 

[NabsNabsNabs]

First thing i would do is check that it will fit under your wheels?
the pad sensor should be generic..
Changing the carriers are easer than changing the caliper IMO (only 2 bolts) but if they have never been off you might run into problems.
however....you may have more success upgrading the pads and adding braded brake hoses instead of the whole brakes.
just a thought..!

I would expect the discs do fit under, the wheels are type 78, 17" which I've seen fairly commonly on 3.0L spec.
Being a novice I wasn't too keen on changes that would require bleeding the brakes, wouldn't feel too confident doing that right just yet, but maybe one for the future, so certainly a good future idea!

 

[IainP]

300mm will fit with 16” wheels

Your calipers don’t need changed, you just need a pair of carriers marked 505


Sorry, I’m not entirely certain which cars have the correct carriers. Nor are some of the people on eBay selling 300 carriers which turn out to be 286.
It may be worth asking on here, @spursfaninacoupe is has been particularly helpful for me. Others are available as per BBC.

 

[Dakar Z3]

Hello Billy,

i have read your comments with interest, also the good sound advice and comments of some experienced Z drivers.

if you are looking to upgrade your brakes using your existing callipers keeping the cost sensible, please note the following option.

MEYLE have a range of ‘PD pads and discs‘ the pads are heavy metal free (no squeal) and are designed to suit the everyday driver as well as what I would call a ‘sporty’ driver retaining the braking characteristics you would expect from an OE quality pad, note they are not racing pads where they perform best at high temperature. They also produce less brake dust keeping your wheels cleaner longer.

The discs are plain vented discs but are coated and high carbon, the carbon content helps to dissipate the heat quicker than a standard steel disc keeping the disc cooler even under hard driving conditions, the coating which gives no enhancement other than looking good behind your alloy wheels with clean silver hubs.

Please note I work for MEYLE, my comments may sound a little bias because I sell them but my comments are ‘factual’.

if you are interested in them I will send you the part numbers and where you can purchase them.

change the pad sensor whilst doing the brakes, it’s not expensive

fitted on my own car 2.2 Sport. Happy to offer advice when needed.

 

[NabsNabsNabs]

300mm will fit with 16” wheels
View attachment 179275
Your calipers don’t need changed, you just need a pair of carriers marked 505
View attachment 179281
View attachment 179283
Sorry, I’m not entirely certain which cars have the correct carriers. Nor are some of the people on eBay selling 300 carriers which turn out to be 286.
It may be worth asking on here, @spursfaninacoupe is has been particularly helpful for me. Others are available as per BBC.

Checking Real OEM does indeed seem like my 2.2 does have different carriers listed vs the 3.0. They seem a little pricey on ebay at the mo...excuse my ignorance....what is BBC?

 

[NabsNabsNabs]

Hello Billy,

i have read your comments with interest, also the good sound advice and comments of some experienced Z drivers.

if you are looking to upgrade your brakes using your existing callipers keeping the cost sensible, please note the following option.

MEYLE have a range of ‘PD pads and discs‘ the pads are heavy metal free (no squeal) and are designed to suit the everyday driver as well as what I would call a ‘sporty’ driver retaining the braking characteristics you would expect from an OE quality pad, note they are not racing pads where they perform best at high temperature. They also produce less brake dust keeping your wheels cleaner longer.

The discs are plain vented discs but are coated and high carbon, the carbon content helps to dissipate the heat quicker than a standard steel disc keeping the disc cooler even under hard driving conditions, the coating which gives no enhancement other than looking good behind your alloy wheels with clean silver hubs.

Please note I work for MEYLE, my comments may sound a little bias because I sell them but my comments are ‘factual’.

if you are interested in them I will send you the part numbers and where you can purchase them.

change the pad sensor whilst doing the brakes, it’s not expensive

fitted on my own car 2.2 Sport. Happy to offer advice when needed.

Thanks Dakar, an interesting option indeed! I'm ideally trying to keep the costs minimal, how much would you expect that route to cost? How about longevity?

 

[Dakar Z3]

Thanks Dakar, an interesting option indeed! I'm ideally trying to keep the costs minimal, how much would you expect that route to cost? How about longevity?

Hello Billy
The guarantee is 2 years unlimited mileage, you can expect under normal driving conditions for them to last several years, however this is dependent on your driving style and use of brakes. If you can forward your post code I will find out for you an approximate cost.

 

[IainP]

....what is BBC?

When anything is mentioned by trade name, or company, on the Bias Broadcasting Corporation radio it’s usually followed by the rejoinder “other products/companies/suppliers are available”.
If you don’t have any real need to go to 300’s, eg track use, then the above offer is probably the route to go.

 

[Nodzed]

You may find it a better option to stay with the same size and invest in some decent grooved discs, uprated pads such as yellow stuff, braided lines and a full fluid flush with a high temp brake fluid, you will be amazed at the result.

 

[the Nefyn cat]

There's always the e46 330 coupe 325mm discs and calipers. They fit inside 17s, and work just fine.

 

[NabsNabsNabs]

There's always the e46 330 coupe 325mm discs and calipers. They fit inside 17s, and work just fine.

I imagine this needs new carriers though?

 

[IainP]

Yes, 325 need the carriers and calipers.
I wouldn’t, the caliper pistons are larger so you’ll have more pedal travel.
300mm are the largest Standard size, as used on the 3.0L cars. Fits straight onto 286mm vented cars with a disc and carrier change.
im not sure you’d notice much difference on the road. As others suggest, different materials in standard size is sufficient for road use.

Or, put much more crudely, if you’re not braking hard enough for the abs to be routinely coming on in the dry, then what you have at the moment are sufficient.

I’m going from 1.9 solid discs and going to be on track at times, so want the biggest I can fit without going to brake balance changes, or big insurance charges. I’ll definitely be having the abs on in the dry at times.

 

[Steve Medlock]

Or, put much more crudely, if you’re not braking hard enough for the abs to be routinely coming on in the dry, then what you have at the moment are sufficient.

Isn't it the other way round?

 

[IainP]

Bit of an Alex Salmond answer.
Yes. But no.
If not braking right at the limit, why would you need to go to the expense and hassle of an upgrade? which was the op question.

 

[Steve Medlock]

I did understand what you were trying to say Ian.

 

[Stevo7682]

There is a number of considerations here I think.
On a 1.9 the conversion from solid to the 6 cylinder vented 286mm set up is definitely a good move.
On a 6 cylinder the upgrade from 286 mm to 300 mm brings a number of things into play
Obviously the bigger brake look better visually.
But then the parts quality comes into play I reckon a 286 mm set up with high quality disc and pads in them will still outperform the 300 mm set up with cheaper discs and pads fitted.
Also as said unless you are driving the doors off your zed will you even notice the difference.
It's alright flinging on big discs and pads but the rest of the set up still the same the servo ,master cylinder and abs pump are designed to deliver a degree of pressure so bigger brakes doesn't automatically mean you will get more push behind the caliper from the master cylinder.
An upgrade that would help would be to replace all the rubber flexi hoses with a braided line set up .
The braided line will minimise pressure loss that can happen a bit on rubber flexi due to hose expansion.
It would be interesting to run some roller brake tests with different set ups to compare individual wheel braking forces .
To see what benefits are gained and lost with different set ups .
Stephen.

 

[NabsNabsNabs]

An upgrade that would help would be to replace all the rubber flexi hoses with a braided line set up .

Thanks @Stevo7682 I think that's the route I'm going to opt for as things stand as per @Nodzed and @IainP also. Thanks for all the advice!

 

[IainP]

Thanks Steve, glad someone does cos I often don’t.

Changing to vented on a 1.9 is more about preventing fade than anything else, the reason I’ve gone to 300 rather than 286, is for me it’s turned out the same cost, and because I’ll be doing track days at times.

not about a change in pressure. The pressure from the master cylinder doesn’t change.

It’s an increase in leverage due to the larger diameter. The length of the lever effectively.
Changing to pads or discs with better coefficients of friction, is effectively increasing the force acting on the lever.
Both could be considered to change the brake balance. As will stiffer dampers/ springs, as they alter weight transfer during braking. Other variables like coil overs, caster bushes, poly bushed arb’s. Soon makes your head hurt (mine anyway).

 

[the Nefyn cat]

I wouldn’t, the caliper pistons are larger so you’ll have more pedal travel

Bit late, I know, but there;s precisely 1 mm difference in piston diameter, not enough to make any noticeable effects. If I remember rightly (it was several years ago) the originals were 56 mm, the 330 coupe ones were 57 mm. I did get the calculator out, and the difference is, indeed, hardly anything, And the calipers are considerably bigger, with correspondingly larger pads, and look a whole lot better inside the 18s it's on now. Luckily I live up here in North Wales where we don't have twisty roads, so we never have any real need for bigger brakes.