Power steering hose - High pressure side Z3 2.8 - price?
- Thread starter Dino D
- Start date
Thanks Andy but I have had all of that fitted along with a new reservoir and the built in filter by my BMW specialist.
The steering now makes an annoying noise when turning right which gets worse as it get hotter.
It’s not like pump noise but like a ‘judder’ noise like when you turn a fat tyred car on a cold multi-storey carpark.
The specialist says he’s seen this on M3 when they change to a braided hose.
The BMW item has a valve in it. This one does not.
That appears to be the issue (the whole system was working fine before, just decided to do it as saw these kits and wanted to keep up on the preventative maintenance as planning to do more track time).
The Zedonist kit looks great and really feels like quality when I unboxed it but it appears that the difference between it and the OEM item is causing the issue.
It’s jolly annoying as it was all fine before I decided on ‘prevention’ work but on the other hand it’s practically all new underneath so it was going to get done eventually.
The only solution I have at the moment is to put the proper part in. The pump and rack are sound so no point throwing money at that.
All part of the fun of playing with and modifying I guess and always a risk of hassle and cost when modifying, bit of a pain when all I want to do is drive it!
I only managed to drive it 1200miles between MOTs. A new low for me I think!
Can anybody help me work what is meant by ‘high pressure’ side/pipe work.
From real OEM it seems it is part number 32416754173
(Item 3 on the pic).
Is there anything else needed when swapping this out?
From real OEM it seems it is part number 32416754173
(Item 3 on the pic).
Is there anything else needed when swapping this out?
I’ve found this from some cursory browsing:
Probably safest I have the garage source the part(s) so if any issues occur they can deal with it better, but trying to get an idea of what’s needed in the meantime to help speed things along (and prepare the wallet).
BMW Z3 E36 Pressure Hose Assembly 32416754173 6754173 NEW GENUINE | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for BMW Z3 E36 Pressure Hose Assembly 32416754173 6754173 NEW GENUINE at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.
www.ebay.co.uk
Probably safest I have the garage source the part(s) so if any issues occur they can deal with it better, but trying to get an idea of what’s needed in the meantime to help speed things along (and prepare the wallet).
So my specialist has sourced the high pressure pipe from BMW for £172.41plus vat (£206 incl) So more than double the price of Zedonist’s item which is only £95.00
Will be fitted hopefully this week and we’ll see how it plays out.
Martin (Zedonist) who makes the kits has been super helpful. This is the first one that he’s had be noisy. Will be sending it back up to him in the name of research and hopefully helps him develop it further. We need people like this to keep our cars going, BMW have already discontinued the metal rerun pipe (item 10 on the diagram).
I’ve been researching the e46 M3 issue that can crop up with the braided line- not quite same noise as I am having as they report more of a whine, but it’s the only comparable situation so far.
Couple of threads from M3cutters talking about the M3 and braided lines:
forums.m3cutters.co.uk
forums.m3cutters.co.uk
My summary from all that is nothing conclusive but:
One of the suppliers of the M3 braided hoses added a notice to the part that it’s for motorsport and could be noisy. Nobody is exactly sure why but it appears to be pot luck per car.
Given the info to hand I would still have gone for the Zedonist kit as it’s good saving and beautifully made and this is the first one to be noisy (With my Z I tend to have this sort of luck, my Z likes to test me sometimes but I’ll still never sell it!)
hopefully have some news in a week or so once it’s back and I get chance to drive it. Missing it terribly especially with the nice weather!
Will be fitted hopefully this week and we’ll see how it plays out.
Martin (Zedonist) who makes the kits has been super helpful. This is the first one that he’s had be noisy. Will be sending it back up to him in the name of research and hopefully helps him develop it further. We need people like this to keep our cars going, BMW have already discontinued the metal rerun pipe (item 10 on the diagram).
I’ve been researching the e46 M3 issue that can crop up with the braided line- not quite same noise as I am having as they report more of a whine, but it’s the only comparable situation so far.
Couple of threads from M3cutters talking about the M3 and braided lines:
Power steering hoses
Evening guys, I am in the middle of stripping my steering rack off on my M3. I've been reading up about the pressure hose (part no 32412282103) to get that rebuilt by Pirtek. Looking at my car now I figured going that way I may as well replace all the rubber steering hose pipes. If you...
forums.m3cutters.co.uk
Power steering hose hack engineering
Doing my power steering hose, as I'm sure everyone knows they are prone to leak which mine is. The oem part is supposed to be over £200, and will probably fail again. Anyone have experience of the hack engineering one, its braided and only £95. They also do kits for a bit more which come...
forums.m3cutters.co.uk
My summary from all that is nothing conclusive but:
- Some cars silent
- Others noisy
- M3 OEM line has a valve in it (not sure some/all/any Z3 has a valve)
- OEM hose material is different to pirtek etc so could be that
- One person swears that it’s because of a ‘failing’ pump
- but others switched back to OEM pipe, same pump and noise goes.
- No one really knows why !
One of the suppliers of the M3 braided hoses added a notice to the part that it’s for motorsport and could be noisy. Nobody is exactly sure why but it appears to be pot luck per car.
Given the info to hand I would still have gone for the Zedonist kit as it’s good saving and beautifully made and this is the first one to be noisy (With my Z I tend to have this sort of luck, my Z likes to test me sometimes but I’ll still never sell it!)
hopefully have some news in a week or so once it’s back and I get chance to drive it. Missing it terribly especially with the nice weather!
'My mechanic' 'My BMW specialist'. I don't know, its a different world over the other side of the County.....
I am not sure how a hose could make noise or why a braded hose would solve the problem?
The pump is just a small hydraulic pump. Hoses simply connect it to the rack. The rack has valving in it that will increase the oil supply based on steering demand.
If it was only happening in one direction I would suspect it to be in the rack itself.
The pump is just a small hydraulic pump. Hoses simply connect it to the rack. The rack has valving in it that will increase the oil supply based on steering demand.
If it was only happening in one direction I would suspect it to be in the rack itself.
Attachments
I was brain storming with Dino the other night over this, I could only think maybe change the power steering fluid for another brand they can vary in viscosity (Thickness).
Also worth noting on the high pressure side with the BMW hose, end to end internally theres a clear tube with small holes in plus the additional valve mentioned above, this might cause an intentional flow restriction.
I did have a similar issues with the steering feel when playing on track and put this down to such high RPM's with the fluid getting very hot. I was told with the M52 it's worth running an underdrive pulley.
I share @Delk view though it could very well be the rack, my rack did blow on track @Dino D you might remember this
I used to deal with modified systems in my old Jeeps for off road. They had high flow pumps and additional steering rams fitted. They would get very hot and make noise but it was always even in both directions.
All the power steering systems I have worked with had a check valve in the supply side. Normally it was a fitting on the outlet of the pump. I am not sure about the clear hose with holes in it and would only guess this would be to suppress flow related noises from the pump.
All the power steering systems I have worked with had a check valve in the supply side. Normally it was a fitting on the outlet of the pump. I am not sure about the clear hose with holes in it and would only guess this would be to suppress flow related noises from the pump.
I'll dig the photos out when I'm home. I also shared these with Martin when he design these lines.
If you turn the steering to full lock and keep pressure on the wheel does it continue to make a funny noise or does it stop?
When you are at full lock and hold the wheel the valves inside the steering rack will remain open and the pump and system will run at full pressure.
When you are at full lock and hold the wheel the valves inside the steering rack will remain open and the pump and system will run at full pressure.
The power steering pump is normally a vane pump with a high pressure relief valve. Full flow passes to the rack and returns to the pump in a loop.
When you turn the wheel and need steering assistance the valves in the rack will start to direct flow to whatever side of the piston needs it. This increases pressure until you reach the relief valve limit. You can hear this when you turn against full lock.
Very simple system but the valve in the rack is very clever.
When you turn the wheel and need steering assistance the valves in the rack will start to direct flow to whatever side of the piston needs it. This increases pressure until you reach the relief valve limit. You can hear this when you turn against full lock.
Very simple system but the valve in the rack is very clever.
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2011
- Points
- 175
great points @Lee @Delk
I’ll try and answer to the best of my limited ‘engineeringZ’ knowledge
It’s not the usual full lock pump noise.
The mechanic hasn’t heard it on another car before - typical luck for me!
I asked for the rack to be changed settings as ‘we are in there already’ but he was not keen- I’ve asked him to check the rack before track days last year as well and he was happy.
for the boat thing- on e46 he’s changed racks and the noise didn’t go away (when a braided hose was used).
Hence he doesn’t want to start racking up cost for work he doesn’t think will solve it.
We should know soon. I’m kind of hoping it’s the rack then that way I know it’s been done but I guess there is the school of thought that if it working we’ll leave it alone(!).
So got the car back and managed 50miles.
It has the BMW high pressure hose fitted.
Noise seems to be gone.
Martin (Zedonist) has been digging in to it more and his research points to resonance along the steel braid of the rubber pipe.
it appears that steel braid in the rubber is much firmer and has less give than cotton braid which I assume is what the OEM part is made of.
This might explain why some cars are silent and others noisy as differences in age/wear of pump/rack could cause resonance in some cars but not others.
I’m no engineer but the work Martin has put into finding answers is more than I’ve been able to find on the other BMW forums and seems to stack up.
I’ve come to accept that my car is one of those that if 1 out of 100 have an issue, mine will be it
Along with this it presented a weird issue with the horns not working and everything was checked including slip ring, steering buttons etc but it was the earth the relay that has dropped out (!) so new wiring for the horns had to be done.
Then it blew a water hose on the MOT
All that said it bloody marvellous having it back and a spare hour to drive it - feels like a proper retro ride after driving around in modern cars all winter.
Oh and it sounds glorious, the 6sp gearbox and low ratio diff make for the most entertaining drive, without even breaking the speed limit
When pootling it just needs 1st, 3rd and 5th.
Still pulls so well but after being spoiled by a V6 turbo diesel one can’t help but wonder what a little boost would do
It has the BMW high pressure hose fitted.
Noise seems to be gone.
Martin (Zedonist) has been digging in to it more and his research points to resonance along the steel braid of the rubber pipe.
it appears that steel braid in the rubber is much firmer and has less give than cotton braid which I assume is what the OEM part is made of.
This might explain why some cars are silent and others noisy as differences in age/wear of pump/rack could cause resonance in some cars but not others.
I’m no engineer but the work Martin has put into finding answers is more than I’ve been able to find on the other BMW forums and seems to stack up.
I’ve come to accept that my car is one of those that if 1 out of 100 have an issue, mine will be it
Along with this it presented a weird issue with the horns not working and everything was checked including slip ring, steering buttons etc but it was the earth the relay that has dropped out (!) so new wiring for the horns had to be done.
Then it blew a water hose on the MOT
All that said it bloody marvellous having it back and a spare hour to drive it - feels like a proper retro ride after driving around in modern cars all winter.
Oh and it sounds glorious, the 6sp gearbox and low ratio diff make for the most entertaining drive, without even breaking the speed limit
When pootling it just needs 1st, 3rd and 5th.
Still pulls so well but after being spoiled by a V6 turbo diesel one can’t help but wonder what a little boost would do
Cobranut
Zorg Addict
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2016
- Points
- 60
I used hedonist, got a great, quick service and good quality product.....
Saw this thread and thought I’d give another thumbs up for the Zedonist. (no association- just impressed with their product)
One of my steering pipes reputured on my 2.8 track car at Thruxton, which rather ruined the day
so whilst doing some repairs/replacement, I thought I’d replace the others.
ordered the one from the Zedonist
was very impressed with the kit that turned up.
everything included correct brackets, bolts washers etc and a quality bit of kit and was easy to fit on the car.
if you haven’t done so recently, you might want to check your steering pipes as you can see from the pictures of mine, the ones that didn’t blow at Thruxton were clearly on their last legs. They get the full force of all the grit stones and stuff thrown up from the road.
One of my steering pipes reputured on my 2.8 track car at Thruxton, which rather ruined the day
so whilst doing some repairs/replacement, I thought I’d replace the others.
ordered the one from the Zedonist
was very impressed with the kit that turned up.
everything included correct brackets, bolts washers etc and a quality bit of kit and was easy to fit on the car.
if you haven’t done so recently, you might want to check your steering pipes as you can see from the pictures of mine, the ones that didn’t blow at Thruxton were clearly on their last legs. They get the full force of all the grit stones and stuff thrown up from the road.
Attachments
Thruxton is a quite a fast track no ?Saw this thread and thought I’d give another thumbs up for the Zedonist. (no association- just impressed with their product)
One of my steering pipes reputured on my 2.8 track car at Thruxton, which rather ruined the day
so whilst doing some repairs/replacement, I thought I’d replace the others.
ordered the one from the Zedonist
was very impressed with the kit that turned up.
everything included correct brackets, bolts washers etc and a quality bit of kit and was easy to fit on the car.
if you haven’t done so recently, you might want to check your steering pipes as you can see from the pictures of mine, the ones that didn’t blow at Thruxton were clearly on their last legs. They get the full force of all the grit stones and stuff thrown up from the road.
I was behind @Lee at Brands when his let go, the fluid spraying down to the rear wheel sent him sideways, luckily only when exiting the hairpin so he collected that very nicely - pity I have no footage
Got me thinking what would happen if mine let go in one of the fast bends like paddock 🫣
happy to report that I’ve done about 200miles on track at Brands and it’s all working great, smooth and quiet as it should be and the cooling loop still looks brand new. Quality kit
