ok ,had enough now..need help!..RESOLVED!

[joey]

morning gentlemen..

bad news i'm afraid....

we fitted the new rad and we still have the leak..

work so far

2 new radiators neither of which cured the problem

new top and bottom hoses

tested with 3 different rad caps

thorough inspection of all other hoses they are ok.

system thoroughly bled, although an improperly bled system would not lead to leakage but overheating which strangely according to the temp gauge didn't happen...its buffered I know but this means that the engine is running within normal temp but with high pressure..

the leak appears to be coming from the radiator cap/expansion tank area and when we got back from a "spirited" drive steam was coming from the cap and coolant was leaking all over the floor, this implies that we have to much pressure in the system.

remember we have done a compression test and the figures were

1) 210 psi
2) 200psi
3) 200 psi
4) 207 psi

these figures are very healthy and shouldn't be what they are with a head gasket failure, and the car pulls like a train (alright a 1.9 train) and is responsive and sounds great!..

however the leak persists...

no milky oil, clean coolant, clear exhaust, no bubbles in the coolant with the rad cap off..

re the fan delete I will be happy to do a wiki..that works brilliantly well and butt dyno reports improved acceleration and a more linear curve all the way to 6500 rpm...generally more peppy and responsive, a brilliant mod and if you have the AC fan in the car already, really simple to do.

if not ebay has a multitude of used BMW electric AC fans starting from £20..we are going to do this mod on Barry's car so when done we will do a combined WIKI article for conversion from a car with and without pre-existing electric fan including wiring schematics for retro fitting a fan.

rich, do it! if you have the AC then all you have to do is fit the radiator fan switch from the M43 ,part number 6131 8 376 440, it will require a minor rad top up and bleed..estimated time for the job 20 mins including making a cuppa!..

available from euro car parts for £21,

you will have to slightly modify the connector but its obvious where and done in 30 seconds with a stanley or similar..

re this leak

thoughts? however bizarre..at this point i'm prepared to believe I have a family of Hobbits living in the coolant system hiding from the queen of Narnia...

i'm stumped is what i'm saying...

worth remembering for anyone joining the thread late , the car has done 72k overall 27k of those in the last year since I have owned, with not a SINGLE engine or cooling issue , this is all post an overheat and coolant loss due to a shoddy repair of the heater matrix hose with a hose connector.

btw I removed that connector and there was enough hose to just re-attach to the inlet point ,took 3 minutes..somebody has been a very lazy a*rse.

i'm afraid Gents this is starting to look like a head gasket...

thoughts on a postcard please.

 

[joey]

p.s just found a running M44 with 106k on it for £200 delivered...Barry has an engine winch and it will be easier and cheaper than a head gasket repair..

also no guarantee the head and or block is not cracked..and the guy has a rad he will trow in which at very least gives us another bit of breathing space.

my thoughts..Gasket kit of OEM quality £100
skim and pressure test £100 or more in these parts..already £200...can get this new engine for that.

 

[zedonist]

Hi Joey,

Based on the above you have ruled out cracked block, but it could be a cracked head, stuck thermostat, or blockage in the coolant system . Have you run the car with the rad cap removed, see if it is bubbling, this would suggest head or gasket.

Just as a silly one, you havenot over filled the coolant system ?

Have you replaced the water pump?

 

[jonco]

Joey - sorry to read this - feeling the frustration from 200 mile away.

IMHO you should do a `bubbler' (as well as bubble) test to establish if the head gasket is actually leaking before you change or start repair.
This is an example of the type of kit available http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Block-tes...original-combustion-leak-tester-/181059430832.
Test involves removing your expansion tank cap and fitting the bunged test kit. You then run the engine and the vapours in the expansion tank bubble out through the solution in the kit and to vent. If combustion gases are present then the solution changes colour (IIRC green to yellow) - if none it stays the same and the solution can be re-used. Others particularly @t-tony will know more about this test.

HTH
Colin

 

[t-tony]

Joey - sorry to read this - feeling the frustration from 200 mile away.

IMHO you should do a `bubbler' (as well as bubble) test to establish if the head gasket is actually leaking before you change or start repair.
This is an example of the type of kit available http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Block-tes...original-combustion-leak-tester-/181059430832.
Test involves removing your expansion tank cap and fitting the bunged test kit. You then run the engine and the vapours in the expansion tank bubble out through the solution in the kit and to vent. If combustion gases are present then the solution changes colour (IIRC green to yellow) - if none it stays the same and the solution can be re-used. Others particularly @t-tony will know more about this test.

HTH
Colin

Definitely ought to be your next shot Joe. As Richard says, have you overfilled the expansion tank?
I think having read your info I might do the fan delete on my 2.0. At 84K I don't think it's had a fan coupling so it is well used.l
Cheers,Tony.

 

[joey]

no bubbling with the cap removed, haven't changed the pump but it was done at the last service..could put the old one back in to rule it out...

could be a blockage but again would that cause a leak?, the stat seems to open fine at around 90c as it is supposed to, i,m not sure how that would affect it though as it sets the floor not the ceiling..I suppose we could run it without the stat to rule it out.

filled to the kalt line and bled wait for level to drop and refill to level keep going until its stable at kalt level, then with the engine running I wait until the coolant comes all the way up to the neck and flows out a bit and put the cap on, this ensures the system is free of air.

it would be air in the system or getting in that is the problem because it expands more under pressure, water not so much..so my feeling is the system is being pressurised beyond the limits of the Cap.
after all it is designed to be the weak point in the system to save other components.

I think it is bled properly and not overfilled..but glad to hear your thoughts on my filling and bleeding procedure

next moves

1) replace pump for old one
2)remove stat to rule that out
3) we are going to pressure test the new rad as maybe the water was coming out from under the cap as the pressure was to high for it..(I have a feeling the Rad is ok.)

Barry has a spare cylinder head which a company in Godstone can skim and pressure test BMW do a thicker gasket for this as the head will need a mm off..

any other thoughts chaps?

 

[joey]

ok ..bubbler test it is

will buy one today...

the bill is mounting though!..with any luck the rad is ok, I can't imagine blowing two radiators in a row..three if you count the original one, (which i'm now thinking might be OK..)...

really stumped!

maybe a bimmer mech can shed some light if i call one over, as they may have seen this before.

 

[Cooper]

hi, i have been doing a bit of research on the issue hoping to find a solution. I saw one buy with a unknown bmw that was having a very similar issues [leaks, high pressure, suspected head gasket issues], and he resolved it after a lot of speculation and such. this is what he wrote, I don't know to much about it, but here it is:

I think I might have been over tightening the expansion tank cap. Set it a bit looser today and the hoses are regular and soft. No coolant seems to be leaking thus far and I can hear the whining of pressure escaping from the cap vent valve after I stop the car. Just gentle hand tight did the trick. Very gentle.

i hope you resolve the issue soon. Cooper

 

[joey]

hi cooper , thanks for this, I have been tightening it a fair way so this may have an effect..

i'm going to try everything I can before I make a move on the next bit.

I just want to get it stable asap..!

I have found good condition M44 for reasonable money so if worst comes to worse this is a good option for me..

my mechanic said he will do the Job for £600 including all the fluids etc etc..so not a bad price,

Me and barry could do it but its a helluva lot of work!

just ordered this to be 100% sure of the head gasket


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FX-53-HEA...R-KIT-PETROL-DIESEL-100ml-FLUID-/281329478838

hopefully it will come early week..

 

[joey]

for those of you that have been following the saga.

we have a definitive answer as of this morning.

head gasket failure , I suspected it all along really, as a previously well behave car became a nightmare.


i'm looking at the positives..

we are doing the work ourselves me and Barry ( top fella) so the cost will be minimal and I have made a really good mate out of this, and that is priceless.

I have overhauled the entire coolant system

the fan delete mod is a winner

fogged air box easy to do with everything out.

head skim should slightly increase the compression ratios and give me a pony or two more..so I may well end up with a better car out of it


and


my seats do not rock

Barry's spare head has gone off for skimming so as to speed the thing along a bit, picking up tomorrow and then we will tear into it over the weekend.

because the cat had been changed on my car not to long ago we are hoping the bolts will come away easily..but we know we are in for two difficult jobs in the re-assembly of the cylinder head and the removal of the exhaust manifold.

TBH its just nice to have an answer.

with the wind behind us we should have her back together by early next week.

wish us luck gentlemen.

 

[badman gee]

I thought you proved the head gasket was ok?

 

[badman gee]

Good luck

 

[badman gee]

What mileage has your car done joey?

 

[joey]

car has done 72k..

compression test implied that it was all ok...but the block test couldn't even be completed because the pressure built to high in the system within a very short time and at idle...

it has also blown two expansion tank seals consecutively...I was not putting another in until I got to the bottom of it.

the very solid mechanic who thoroughly bled the system and has had a lot of experience with e36's said it was pretty conclusive..no reason for him to lie as he knew we were undertaking the repair ourselves..

the only other weird thing was that the engine thermostat misbehaved on warm up, seeming to be very erratic,we thought it may be faulty but it levelled out at 101 and climbed to 117 in a very linear way, we then decided it was accurate and in fact reading different temps because its picking up coolant and air temps because both are in the system..only other fault codes were a couple of misfire's...could be related to all of this or maybe sparks coil packs or ht leads will replace it along with the other hoses whilst in there.

he didn't even bother with the leak down test as he said there was no point. its a wrap..

spent an hour and 30 on it was thorough and only charged me £40..!

to wrap up , the car has NEVER overheated or caused me any problems in terms of the engine up until the loss of coolant due to the dodgy repair on the heater matrix hose that I didn't pick up...for 27k

erratic behaviour and blowing of rads and steaming from the cap within 10 days of a complete coolant loss and overheat, it's obvious really although due to the compression values it had us stumped for a bit...remove those and evidentially it all points to either a gasket or cylinder head failure.

in conclusion I think the cooling system on these cars is a serious weak point and a worry because of the ali head and block,it would appear that all's it takes is one hose to go and if you do not notice and shut the car off before its to late you are screwed..

I will keep you all updated as we go..

 

[badman gee]

Good stuff joey

 

[t-tony]

TBH Joey I think you are correct with comment re alloy blocks and heads, the Rover 4 cyl's were terribly weak if over heated and the radiators used to dissolve unnoticed, until the day the head gasket blew . . circa 70K. Good luck fella's and see you on the other side.

All the best, Tony.

 

[Mint]

Best of luck Joey, you'll be an expert on the other side...

 

[badman gee]

TBH Joey I think you are correct with comment re alloy blocks and heads, the Rover 4 cyl's were terribly weak if over heated and the radiators used to dissolve unnoticed, until the day the head gasket blew . . circa 70K. Good luck fella's and see you on the other side.

All the best, Tony.

Your right, the rover 75 4 pot was prone to head gasket failure.

One reason I brought the 2.5 v6!

 

[badman gee]

And the 2.5 v6 is sweet as eh tony!

 

[t-tony]

They used them in one of the Lotus cars, I don't remember which one, but obviously they beefed up the cooling somehow. Similarly way after production and into the classic ie worth keeping period they also made bigger, better radiators for the Triumph Stag too for the same reason.

Dad,. . . . . . why 'd they call it STAG.