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M50 inlet and throttle body

Discussion in 'Performance' started by Ashbandicoot, Dec 4, 2014.

  1. Ashbandicoot

    Ashbandicoot Passed Away, July 27 2015
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    After some advice from somebody that has modded their 2.8...

    I have seen a company in Northamptonshire offering a service of fitting the inlet and custom remapping boasting upto 35bhp gains for £350 plus £120 for a throttle body bored to 68mm. Is the throttle body worth doing?

    Other option i have is a trust worthy BMW mechanic that works in his spare time, is very cheap labour wise and buying the parts for him to fit but no remap. The m50 inlet kit is available for £70 from the co that offers the upgrade.

    Is a re-map necessary to benefit from these mods? I have a std exhaust and airbox with k&n panel filter.

    Lots of questions :)

    Cheers

    Ash
     
  2. GazHyde

    GazHyde The Gaz Monkey
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    Ash,

    I don't know anything specifically about this mod other than the gains that have been suggested seem to be roughly correct from reading up on this.

    It would seem sensible to improve the air intake and exhaust before getting the remap done. Is it something you are planning to do, or just thinking of the inlet manifold?
     
  3. Ashbandicoot

    Ashbandicoot Passed Away, July 27 2015
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    Hi Gaz

    A powerflow exhaust is in my plans (open to other suggestions) and I have been looking at a heat shielded cone filter, but is the standard airbox with a k&n panel filter that bad?

    The inlet mod seems to be good value and have found lots of threads on other forums for E36 328s which have had this done, these are who I have looked at to do the work www.bmwsparepart.com/m50-manifold-conversions.

    This video is of an E36 they did the mod to, not how I would drive, but you get the idea...



    Ash
     
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  4. GazHyde

    GazHyde The Gaz Monkey
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    I'm not sure if you have read the article on fogging the standard air box, but if you haven't it's worth a look.

    https://zroadster.org/articles/bmw-z3-a-better-air-intake-by-mike-fishwick.43/

    For the sake of a couple of quid and a trip to a hardware store you could try the above. All I know is my engine breathed a lot better when I had the Simota induction kit on it. No more power, but just smoother all through the rev range.
     
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  5. Lee

    Lee Zorg Guru (V)
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    The Hp gains are mostly achieved because of the mapping after the new parts are fitted. The car needs to be told what to do with the increased air/fuel flow. Well worth doing and massively noticeable once done.
     
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  6. Ashbandicoot

    Ashbandicoot Passed Away, July 27 2015
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    Have you done this yourself or recommend anybody?

    Ash
     
  7. Lee

    Lee Zorg Guru (V)
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    Yeah ive done one a few years back. If you were local i would do it bar the remap of course. With basic tools you can do the job yourself(just nuts n bolts).

    I did alot of research on it, it turns out the german tax laws are/used to be done on HP. So to restrict the HP of the 2.8 to below 200 they fitted it with the 2.5 manifold (ones ovel ones round inlets).

    If my memory serves me well you also need to move the dip stick too (to the right about an inch)

    Just out of curiosity you have the single vanos 2.8?

    I'm askign becuase the twin has a little bit more work involved.

    Lee
     
  8. Ashbandicoot

    Ashbandicoot Passed Away, July 27 2015
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    Yeah it's single vanos, but I'm not competent enough to do the job ha.

    I thought they schackled the 2.8 to make sure the //M sold well, cynical :)

    I gave the company I linked above a call and they said they'd use a rolling road to remap, but ideally I would like to use a recommended place so may just buy the kit off them and go elsewhere for fitting/remap.

    If I go for a BBTB as well do I want the M50 or M52?

    Cheers


    Ash
     
  9. Lee

    Lee Zorg Guru (V)
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    It all depends on you budget. First thing to do would be fit the M50 manifold to unlock some more horses, then if you want to unlock some more you increase the throttle body size, you can then change air filter setup/exhaust, even the M3 cams at this point unlock more HP. Depending on your budget depends how much you want to unlock. But this engine does have a limit arround 230-250bhp people claim they reach around those figures. But if your spending that amount you might as well change the engine. Its just not cost effective.

    Keep in mind you don't do the mapping until you have finished modding as this ties everything together.

    Personally the manifold and throttle body, coupled with a piperflex/K&N and an exhaust system would be the way i would take it.

    I see you mentioned the rolling road. That's a good sign the garage is doing it the correct way by fine tuning everything. Some places bolt everything on and place a pre loaded map onto the ECU and send you on your way.

    This garage looks promising and the prices sound reasonable.

    And if you ever come to a zed meet i will take you out in my M, the cars are leagues apart in terms of performance ;)

    Hope this is starting to make some sense now.

    Lee
     
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  10. Ashbandicoot

    Ashbandicoot Passed Away, July 27 2015
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    @Lee I got in touch with the local powerflow dealer and they reckon £450 for the full exhaust, customised etc and fitted, sound reasonable? I presume cat back would be cutting corners..

    @GazHyde I've taken a look at the airbox fogging guide, when you fitted the simota did you make any changes to the cold air feed?

    Cheers

    Ash
     
  11. GazHyde

    GazHyde The Gaz Monkey
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  12. Ashbandicoot

    Ashbandicoot Passed Away, July 27 2015
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    Is that not still relying on the cold air from the kidney grille which feeds the std air box?

    I just found out the price for one aswell :dead:
     
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  13. GazHyde

    GazHyde The Gaz Monkey
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    Yes it does. As far as I understand it, as with any cone filter replacement it allows more air in to the intake. The carbon fibre bit funnels the air in to the filter, and also keeps out the warm engine bay air out of the filter. I'm sure someone can explain it better than me though. All I know in practice the engine generally ran smoother than with the OEM box.
    Yeah, only downside. There are cheaper alternatives, such as an open cone filter and making your own heatshield for it.
     
  14. t-tony

    t-tony Zorg Expert (I)
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    As in................ 020 (3).jpg 021 (3).jpg

    As you can see Ash it's work in progress to be honest. Having started this project earlier this year and now my car is "off the road" till spring I will get the filter fully boxed and will post pic's later as I get it done. The engine definitely runs smoother and seems to accelerate better with this induction "kit" on.

    Tony.
     
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  15. GazHyde

    GazHyde The Gaz Monkey
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    That's starting to look good Tony! When can we expect production to begin?
     
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  16. t-tony

    t-tony Zorg Expert (I)
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    I think it will be a while Gaz. Will keep you posted though.:)

    Tony.
     
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  17. Ashbandicoot

    Ashbandicoot Passed Away, July 27 2015
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    Thanks for all the advice @GazHyde & @Lee

    I am going to fog the oem airbox, the price of a decent heat shielded conefilter is too much for me, then get an exhaust system.

    I have contacted Ian (Alpina527) from the e36 forum and will be arranging for him to fit his kit, he seems to be the godfather of this area lol.

    The company I was looking into above just seems too cheap for parts, labour and 4 hours of rollling road remap. When others charge more just for a RR remap, something doesn't seem right.

    I'll post some photos etc once i've made some progress.. strut is in the post, Zeds not resting in the winter :)

    Ash
     
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  18. Ashbandicoot

    Ashbandicoot Passed Away, July 27 2015
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    Started to fog airbox at 7, just given up for the night! How the f@#* do you locate the drain pipe as per Mike Fishwicks guide without obstructing the headlight adjustment? :banghead::mad:

    Ash
     
  19. Dino D

    Dino D Zorg Guru (IV)
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    Re the price and remap.
    I think they don't need to do a live 4 hour remap.
    A very well regarded tuner, Enda Ward of End tuning told me that these cars can be mapped without using a rolling road.

    If that is the case then the price seems realistic especially if they run a breakers where they source the parts from...

    Enda explained it as follows when I asked how his remap works with the M50 conversion:

    'The way I work with the files is that they are modular, so I can make different variations based on different modifications. The MAF changes are a good example, the overall file is target driven, so I set new targets for fueling and advance, and the ECU will choose the best one depending on the conditions. The M50 manifold will flow more air at higher RPMs, but the ECU will look up different values compared to the original as it uses the airflow as an index for engine load.
    The more air it takes in, the higher load it is under, and it will automatically use values for the higher airflow, and it’ll self-tune itself for the exhaust and manifold.
    The MAF however is a calibrated part, the airflow passing it is converted into a voltage, and that voltage is used by the ECU to figure out how much air has come in. Using a larger MAF upsets this, so a new calibration curve is imported into the file which squares everything up again.

    This modular style means only one calibration table needs to be changed and everything else will now work as original, as opposed to every table in the ECU needing to be altered. Without changing the calibration table, the engine would run lean as it would underestimate the amount of air coming in.
    The result of all of this is that there is no specific need for it to be set up on a rolling road. The ECU will automatically update and use newer values once you have fitted the M50 manifold, and will handle the exhaust too without problems.
    The tuning sets new targets for fueling and advance which will restore the lost lower RPM power from the larger manifold, so the main options are the new base targets, plus vanos switching point changes if the M50 manifold is fitted, plus MAF recalibration for a larger MAF and everything will work perfectly.
    All of this can be done through the post if needed, or even onto a spare ECU which can have the EWS removed so it’s able to be plugged in and it’ll fire up when the larger MAF is on.'


    So perhaps the guys who fit the kit do something similar hence their price?
     
    #19 Dino D, Dec 12, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2014
  20. Ashbandicoot

    Ashbandicoot Passed Away, July 27 2015
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    @Dino D Thanks for the info, I had found out the ECU would respond to the manifold change itself. As you say, I think there remap is to restore the lower tq and remove the rev limiter. I guess they actually remap it then use the rolling road just to get a dyno reading

    I am getting the manifold and bbtb fitted on Saturday elsewhere, without a remap. S52 cams in transit from the US to fit the week after. I think I will look at the remap after that.

    Ash
     
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