M44 coolant pump refusing to `come out'

[jonco]

Eventually got round to cooling system jobs today which have been delayed for various reasons on `98 1.9 (M44).

Fan, thermostat housing and drive belt out very easily. System flushed and surprisingly clean as I did not know its' history. Pump mounting bolts removed - no problem.

Tried to remove pump by hand - no movement but not surprsing its probably been in there 15years. Jacking bolts inserted - no movement (on no!). Copious amounts of WD applied - 3hrs later its probably moved ~ 1/16th" after lots of gentle tapping, levering and swearing at it.
Checked several times I had taken all the bolts out(self doubt crept in).
Daren't apply any more torque on jacking bolts - will crack housing. Left soaking in WD overnight.

As far as I can see there should only be the sealing ring or corrosion product holding it. Pump was performing ok ( it was a preventative change) and still turns freely by hand.

Anybody else had this problem?

Trying to work out if I take the front cover plate off - can I get to it from the otherside? Help please?

 

[zedonist]

It's a common problem when the correct mix of coolant is not used or is not changed at correct intervals, you get a lot of corrosion and some cold welding, so you need to use lots of WD40, gentle tapping and jacking bolts, all i can
say is take your time, and resist the brute force option.

 

[swamper]

i had the same problem on my 1.9.....3 days to get it out.....as zedonist said ..slowly slowly..it will give !!

 

[jonco]

i had the same problem on my 1.9.....3 days to get it out.....as zedonist said ..slowly slowly..it will give !!

Thanks for that encouraging news - about to start Day 2 then! Sod's law has been applied and contractor's have arrived 2 days early to dig up my drive so the Zed has been pushed out onto the roadside - life is never straightforward.

 

[swamper]

when it does come out you will look at it and wonder where all the grip came from...its a pain matey .
dont forget your doing it cold.....id put money that it would be 10 times easier warm

 

[badman gee]

Get some elbow grease behind it sir, it can't be as bad as the gearbox filler and drain to remove!

 

[jonco]

POP!! - it's out ( the pump that is).
After a few more hours of tapping, levering, spraying WD and jack bolting in the rain I was losing the will to live. I was also concerned the jacking points were feeling the same way so I decided to modify a method suggested on .net. I threaded some steel wire through the bolt holes in the pulley wheel and created a loop. I inserted a 5ft crow bar through the loop down to ground and then using the stabiliser bar as a leverage point proceeded to mime repeatedly pulling pints for ~45mins ( is that what you mean by elbow grease badman).
All of a sudden POP out it came like a champagne cork.
There was no corrosion it was solely being held by the `O' ring ( you were right Swamper) but some markings on the inside of the housing suggested it may not have been in square.
On examination there were cracks in the jacking holes but otherwise it was in good condition and could have stayed in. It had the metal impeller not plastic.
Thanks to all for suggestions.

 

[badman gee]

Good stuff

 

[zedonist]

Great news, now 50lb lump hammer to get new one in lol.

 

[jonco]

Great news, now 50lb lump hammer to get new one in lol.

Yep that worked fine - problem is I smashed the radiator on the backswing.
Serously it went in easily - only run the engine on tickover so far but all seems fine - new stat controlling well at 12 o'clock position.
Airbag fault next on list - so will need lump hammer for that.

 

[zedonist]

What's the airbag problem?

 

[jonco]

What's the airbag problem?

I noticed the other week that the air-bag light was not illuminating on test when ignition was switched on. Initial thought was bulb (or is it LED) had gone but not sure how long it has been faulty.
Last week I was reading a thread (it may have been on .net - can't remember) where somebody said they had also thought their light was not working but then noticed it actually was but was so faint they could usually not see it. This prompted me to go out and look in the dark and discover I had same symptoms. The light was very faint but you could just about see the initial flashing start-up check and then it stays on.
I plugged in INPA and it shows fault numbers 3 ( supply voltage) & 6 (ignition circuit 2 - passenger seat belt tensioners). I don't know how long these have been in memory so next step is to clear them and see whether same faults re-appear. Watch out for a new thread on this subject matter.
edited - for some reason I had put seat -belt should be air bag

 

[e36Ballen]

I'm in the same situation. I was hoping to drive my zed today!!!

The bottom of my water pump is cracked after using the provided M6 holes to push it out.

I'm borrowing this water pump puller from this fella. He's no longer selling it so he's lending it. He happens to be in the same area as me.

https://laurenarce.wixsite.com/bmwtools

 

[Grenville]

Hi Jonco, re your airbag light and the code for the seat belt tensioners --- disconnect the battery then check the small yellow electrical tabs are properly inserted into their sockets. They are down the bottom of the seat belt tensioners and can be got at easily enough if you run the seats fully forward.

 

[Mint]

Hi Jonco, re your airbag light and the code for the seat belt tensioners --- disconnect the battery then check the small yellow electrical tabs are properly inserted into their sockets. They are down the bottom of the seat belt tensioners and can be got at easily enough if you run the seats fully forward.

Great advice but I reckon Jonco will have fixed this by now. The post is over 6 years old

 

[Grenville]

Great advice but I reckon Jonco will have fixed this by now. The post is over 6 years old

They say I can be a tad backwards at times. Duh.

 

[jonco]

They say I can be a tad backwards at times. Duh.

Thanks for advice - the problem is after 6 years I struggle to remember .
I think you are/were right however - I cleaned up the contacts on the yellow plug/socket and re-fitted the cable tie - was missing on one side. The light has come in once or twice since but usually after co-pilot has adjusted seat to suit her much shorter frame - has reset ok (the light that is- not her frame).

 

[jonco]

I'm in the same situation. I was hoping to drive my zed today!!!

The bottom of my water pump is cracked after using the provided M6 holes to push it out.

I'm borrowing this water pump puller from this fella. He's no longer selling it so he's lending it. He happens to be in the same area as me.

https://laurenarce.wixsite.com/bmwtools

View attachment 124373

That tool looks about right for the job - my worries using a much cruder version was that I would crack front cover plate so take care where you apply the load. If you've never refilled and bled the system before it can be a pain. It is best done with front of car raised slightly, heater and blower on and then hand squeeze the inlet/outlet hoses to displace air before staring engine - there was a recent post on this with good suggestions. Good Luck.

 

[e36Ballen]

That tool looks about right for the job - my worries using a much cruder version was that I would crack front cover plate so take care where you apply the load. If you've never refilled and bled the system before it can be a pain. It is best done with front of car raised slightly, heater and blower on and then hand squeeze the inlet/outlet hoses to displace air before staring engine - there was a recent post on this with good suggestions. Good Luck.

Yep. I'm learning that I must use support close to the bolts in housing to ensure strong support on the timing chain cover plate.

At the same time, I'm considering using a slide hammer.

Considering your experience, it's okay to use some brute force right? You used the stabilizer as a support and eventually pulled it out. Will I be fine using a slide hammer like this?

I'm scared of deforming the block lol

It's either the block or the timing cover lol

https://www.amazon.com/OTC-5028-Sli...8?keywords=slide+hammer&qid=1575460502&sr=8-8

I have my fan and radiator removed. I only left the A/C condenser at front.

 

[jonco]

Have to confess I've never used a slide hammer so cannot comment - I'm sure there are a few guys on here who can advise - @Lee , @t-tony @mrscalex to name a few (other brands are available ).

My method meant I was not putting a force inwards against the plate but pulling the pump outwards with the plate attached by the seal.

I do not have A/C so on the M44 there was plenty of room. I would suggest you put the puller on and give it a gentle squeeze - with luck it will move.

EDIT - just found this in my files - this guy used to strips of angle iron to spread load.