Help - Windows not working

[Jjim]

Drove my Silver Z3 last weekend, gave her a clean and put her cover on. Everything working fine.

Took her cover off today, started her up no problem but neither window now works. Had a look at the fuses and they are fine. Put a voltmeter across the fuse and it had power going through it.

Took both window switches off swapped them over, nothing happened.

Anybody have any suggestions, I’m at a loss as to where to look next??

 

[t-tony]

Anything happening at all mate, noises etc.? Do you have a power probe? For both to have stopped at once my best guess would be a relay stuck open.

Tony.

 

[Jjim]

Got a voltmeter and continuity tester.

As they both stopped working a relay was my thought as well. Read somewhere about a blue ‘comfort relay’ behind the dash.

Taken both driver and passenger lower trim panels off and can’t see any blue relay cubes.

Google isn’t much help, as all it goes on about are window regulators. Where I don’t seem to have anything happening at all for either side.

 

[Mazza]

Just had a look in Bentleys manual, and the circuit diagram shows two systems (ZVM and ZKE )
The ZVM circuit shows a K78 Comfort Relay, and the location says Left Footwell behind trim.
Attached circuits

 

[Jjim]

Thanks @Mazza I'll have a look when I get home tonight.

Just had a look on Google, and it seems the relay is part of a ZVM Module which is black. I've got the lower dash trim panels off on both sides, so hopefully I'll be able to find it tonight.

I'll then be in contact with @spurs fan in a coupe for a replacement

 

[Lee]

Take the glovebox out and you'll see them all

 

[Jjim]

Take the glovebox out and you'll see them all

Cheers. When I was initially looking for the 'Comfort Relay' all the information I had was for an E36 which has a separate blue relay cube. After some more research, it appears that the Z3's 'Comfort Relay' is part of the ZVM Module which is a black rectangular box.

Got this picture from Google, which looks exactly like mine:


The only black module I can see it the one highlighted in the red box in the picture above. Is this the correct one?

If so I can get it disconnected this evening for the correct part number.

 

[Mazza]

Don’t know if this helps but the ZKE diagram doesn’t show a relay???? ( at least don’t think so !)
It does show the three connectors X13252, 3 and 4.
Might be an idea just to wiggle the connector first in case of bad connection?

 

[mrscalex]

You need to be careful looking at wiring diagrams as electrics vary from year to year and most of the diagrams kicking around are for US cars which are sometimes different.

I can't think I've ever heard of or noticed a separate window relay before (obviously on a UK car). So I suspect it's in the ZKE body control module. Not all relays on the car are in separate 'traditional' relay form. The EWS for instance has an internal relay.

From what I can tell the windows are switched through the ZKE which is the big black box behind the glovebox. It's a simple Fuse>Switch>ZKE>Motor arrangement.

All versions of Z3s power the windows & ZKE off Fuse 14 (30A) from what I can see.

The windows should have their own ground, under the centre console and between the gear lever and handbrake. I'd probably favour an issue with that or another connector (possibly corrosion) over the ZKE itself currently.

ZKM is not a term I'm familiar with. It's possibly an alternative or older name for the ZKE.

Have you checked for error codes?

 

[Jjim]

You need to be careful looking at wiring diagrams as electrics vary from year to year and most of the diagrams kicking around are for US cars which are sometimes different.

I can't think I've ever heard of or noticed a separate window relay before (obviously on a UK car). So I suspect it's in the ZKE body control module. Not all relays on the car are in separate 'traditional' relay form. The EWS for instance has an internal relay.

From what I can tell the windows are switched through the ZKE which is the big black box behind the glovebox. It's a simple Fuse>Switch>ZKE>Motor arrangement.

All versions of Z3s power the windows & ZKE off Fuse 14 (30A) from what I can see.

The windows should have their own ground, under the centre console and between the gear lever and handbrake. I'd probably favour an issue with that or another connector (possibly corrosion) over the ZKE itself currently.

ZKM is not a term I'm familiar with. It's possibly an alternative or older name for the ZKE.

Have you checked for error codes?

Thanks for the info

Haven't checked for error codes. Will do that also.

Checked the fuse this is good and power flowing through it.

I'm pretty sure that the ground connection is good, as if its the one between the gear lever and handbrake, I'm sure the handbrake is grounded there also and the light works for that.

 

[mrscalex]

I had to open a deadlocked passenger door at the weekend in my project car with loom damage. It wasn't responding to the remote, key action in the driver/boot locks or the unlock signal from the EWS when the engine fires. I was determined not to have to remove the door card with the door shut.

So I removed the appropriate connector from the ZKE and bypassed the ZKE by sending the power straight to the door from the battery through the appropriate connector sockets. The ZKE takes various inputs which it may use to block the request from the keys & EWS. This is what was happening to me (due to loom damage). So I took it out of the equation. And it worked

The ZKE takes inputs from the window switch through connector X13254. And sends the power to the window regulator through connector X13253. These are the green and purple connectors respectively.

So by injecting the power directly onto connector X13253 with it disconnected you can test the windows. And by doing it onto X13254 with it connected you can simulate the request from the window switches. By back probing the connections on X13254 (connected or disconnected) you can also test if the window switches are sending the signals.

I've attached the ZKE pinout. You would need to read it in conjunction with a wiring diagram to understand what does what and hence where to prod.

You can also control many of the electrics on the car from within INPA. This includes the windows as I had them going up and down from within the software when I was trying to fire the passenger door actuator. You can also test the alarm, hazard lights etc. If the windows work like this I suspect it means the ZKE is fine as INPA would be directly controlling it by sending requests directly instead of the usual inputs (ie switches or for central locking the keys).

 

[Jjim]

Thank you for this, will be really useful in my search for the faulty component.

Will let you know how I get on.

 

[mrscalex]

Thanks for the info
I'm pretty sure that the ground connection is good, as if its the one between the gear lever and handbrake, I'm sure the handbrake is grounded there also and the light works for that.

On the wiring diagram I am looking at both window switches share the same ground but nothing else (ie handbrake switch) shares that with them.

The motors each have separate grounds to the other. But each shares with a whole host of other equipment. So I think you would have noticed if the motor grounds were defective as large parts of your car would have stopped working. And it's unlikely both grounds would fail together.

But I'd still consider the switch ground.

 

[Jjim]

Well after a whole host of fault finding and testing, I finally determined that the fault was with an internal relay within the ZKE Module.

Many thanks to @Mazza and @mrscalex for their help, information and input. Really helped with testing and where to look.

Found that power was going in the right places and grounds were fine. Everything was good until the output from the module, which lead me to believe that an internal relay was at fault.

The offending module;


Picked up another module from @spurs fan in a coupe today, which he kindly brought up with him as he was up this way. Fitted it and both the windows now work fine.

Another great result for the forum, as I received help, advice and access to the parts I needed.
Thanks everyone.

 

[Mazza]

Well done. Glad it’s all fixed.

 

[Antm72]

Great work everyone and a great result

 

[spurs fan in a coupe]

Glad it’s all fixed mate, good to meet you @Jjim

 

[Jjim]

Glad it’s all fixed mate, good to meet you @Jjim

Popped it in as soon as I got back. All good, just what the car needed. Many thanks.

Was good to meet you Andy. Hope you have a good holiday
And the car smells better after a bit of airing

 

[tcrichton]

Apologies for receiving an old thread but I wanted to thank the community, especially @Jjim and @mrscalex for feeding back with the root cause after the issue was remedied.

Often I'll read threads that go dark after a fix is found without feedback.

My zed was in the bodyshop for a little work and they had to jump start it, after that the roof and both windows stopped working.

With the details in this post I'll be able to work out if the ZKE is at fault.

Many thanks,

Tristan.

 

[Jjim]

Glad to hear the thread was useful to you.