EML and DSC/ABS lights on help please!

[Amz]

Hello all,

I have recently have had the engine management light and dsc/abs warning lights come on my Z3. 3.0 sport 2002. They come on and off randomly but one time the car went into limp mode.

I had read as many articles on these issues as possible on this forum and other BMW forums to equip myself with knowledge before I took her for a diagnostics check at an BMW Indy specialist. I am based in North London and found an Indy based in Romford with good reviews and felt confident it might be a straight forward fix.

Due to COVID rules, I was not able to hang around while they inspected the vehicle which was annoying. Anyways, I got the call that they had completed the inspection and I was surprised with the number of findings discovered.

- ABS pressures are faulty and need to be replaced
- Idle control valve is faulty
- Air intake pipe is split (not shown which pipe and where)
- Inlet breather system needs to be replaced
- Brake fluid bleed out and clean (further costs if nipples are seized and need new calipers)

I was quoted £1200 for the above and they were not able to provide reassurances that after doing the above the problem would go away. They did not even provide a report of the codes which was annoying. Perhaps a tactic to ensure I don't go elsewhere. I suggested what if we took a phased approach on fixing the easier items on the lists and see if that resolves the issue but they just replied that all the above need doing. I am not sure if they are taking me for a ride like some of the stories shared on here by other forum members, who found that in the end it was a relatively easy fix.

I am not sure how to proceed with this and wanted the forum's view on this please. I hardly drive her and this could be one reason for the above issues however prior to these lights coming on the car ran like a dream with so much power. Therefore I am surprised with the unexpected behaviour.

Many thanks in advance

Amz

 

[NZ00Z3]

Hi Amz

Yes, it is annoying when they don't give you the codes. Sometimes owning a cheap scanner is worth it's weight in gold, as you know what the codes are before you take the car in. This helps to stop the rip-over from the Indy cause you already have an idea of the problem. In your case, as you have the DSC light up, you'll need one that has BMW software, so you can talk to the ABS module. INPA is free software that you set up on a windows laptop. the special cables are cheep. See this thread: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/...tions-Experiences-Discussions-Experimentation

• The ABS pressure sensors failing is common on the Z3's with DSC. This is likely the cause of your DSC/ABS warning lights.
• The air intake pipe splitting is also common on the 6 cylinder cars. Usually where the small tube branches off to the idle control valve. You should be able to see this hole, as its on the outside diameter where it is visible. This vacuum leak may be bringing up some lean running codes and hence the EML light.
• Idle control valves don't fail often. If your car idles nicely, then it does not need to be changed. Maybe it needs a clean, but not changed.
• The inlet breather system or Crank Case Ventilation system (CCV) does cause problems. Usually from broken pipes causing vacuum leaks.
• Brake fluid bleed. On the dash, where the service indicator is located. There are 2 other indicators that pop up from time to time. The "Inspection" word to tell you that you need to do an inspection service and a "clock dial" which tells you that the brake fluid need to be replaced. Do you have the clock dial showing? When they replace the ABS pressure sensors, they open the brake fluid system. They have to bleed the brake fluid system to remove any air that gets in. This is part of the pressure sensor replacement job. It almost looks like they want to charge you twice for the same job.

If you have lean codes, it looks like they want to scatter gun approach by replacing the air intake pipe, CCV and Idle control valve as precautions. A smoke test will show you where the vacuum leaks are and you then only need to change the broken parts.

Do you have any other Z3 Forum members close by? Maybe they have a scanner with BMW software and can have a look for you.

Also, check out where the Zed Sheds are that are part of this form. They may be a very good way of having a weekend in the country and getting the Z3 fixed.

 

[t-tony]

What mileage has your Z3 done? The inlet rubber boots are not expensive to replace and are readily available on the after market. If the car has had regular oil service I doubt the CCV will be "gummed up" and the ICV is easy to clean out using a can of Carburetor cleaner. My car is a 2003 and the calliper bleed screws came out easily enough. How far is it from North London up to Lincoln?

Tony.

 

[Amz]

Hi Amz

Yes, it is annoying when they don't give you the codes. Sometimes owning a cheap scanner is worth it's weight in gold, as you know what the codes are before you take the car in. This helps to stop the rip-over from the Indy cause you already have an idea of the problem. In your case, as you have the DSC light up, you'll need one that has BMW software, so you can talk to the ABS module. INPA is free software that you set up on a windows laptop. the special cables are cheep. See this thread: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/...tions-Experiences-Discussions-Experimentation

• The ABS pressure sensors failing is common on the Z3's with DSC. This is likely the cause of your DSC/ABS warning lights.
• The air intake pipe splitting is also common on the 6 cylinder cars. Usually where the small tube branches off to the idle control valve. You should be able to see this hole, as its on the outside diameter where it is visible. This vacuum leak may be bringing up some lean running codes and hence the EML light.
• Idle control valves don't fail often. If your car idles nicely, then it does not need to be changed. Maybe it needs a clean, but not changed.
• The inlet breather system or Crank Case Ventilation system (CCV) does cause problems. Usually from broken pipes causing vacuum leaks.
• Brake fluid bleed. On the dash, where the service indicator is located. There are 2 other indicators that pop up from time to time. The "Inspection" word to tell you that you need to do an inspection service and a "clock dial" which tells you that the brake fluid need to be replaced. Do you have the clock dial showing? When they replace the ABS pressure sensors, they open the brake fluid system. They have to bleed the brake fluid system to remove any air that gets in. This is part of the pressure sensor replacement job. It almost looks like they want to charge you twice for the same job.

If you have lean codes, it looks like they want to scatter gun approach by replacing the air intake pipe, CCV and Idle control valve as precautions. A smoke test will show you where the vacuum leaks are and you then only need to change the broken parts.

Do you have any other Z3 Forum members close by? Maybe they have a scanner with BMW software and can have a look for you.

Also, check out where the Zed Sheds are that are part of this form. They may be a very good way of having a weekend in the country and getting the Z3 fixed.

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. Really useful information here. Will look to install the INPA software on a laptop and get a diagnostic tool along with doing a diy smoke test to find where the leak is at.

The car seems to idle fine but will check again later today on a cold start.

I don't have the clock dial showing up on the dashboard and an oil service was only carried out a couple of hundred miles however we was unable to replace the brake fluid on the day as the mechanic on the day was reluctant to use force on the nipples on the calipers in the case they might break and not having spares on the day.

I will checkout where the Zed Shed is next and if there are any members local to me who may have a scanner.

Many thanks

Amz

 

[Amz]

What mileage has your Z3 done? The inlet rubber boots are not expensive to replace and are readily available on the after market. If the car has had regular oil service I doubt the CCV will be "gummed up" and the ICV is easy to clean out using a can of Carburetor cleaner. My car is a 2003 and the calliper bleed screws came out easily enough. How far is it from North London up to Lincoln?

Tony.

Hello Tony,

The car has done 89,000 miles and has had it's oil service done a couple of hundred miles ago. Thanks for your suggestions, will defo look into them.

I had a look on google maps and Lincoln is about 2h 40 mins from me and not sure if it would be safe to drive that sort of distance with the engine light popping on and the risk the car goes into limp mode again.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond.

Kind regards

Amz

 

[Amz]

So i had ten minutes spare and went to check the idling. Upon turning the engine on, It went up to 1000 revs and then quickly settled at 700. The car was shaky during this period.

i then went to look under the hood and found a split in a bend in one of the pipes. This was confirmed by an obvious hissing sound.As a quick test, i covered the split with a piece of cloth. The bend on the pipe is indeed rubber but i am not sure what part i need to order or what its called.

maybe worth me taking her for a short drive tomorrow to see which lights come on if any.

i have attached photos but it was quite hard to take a decent photo.

many thanks

Amz

 

[NZ00Z3]

Well, that was the split in the rubber pipe that I was talking about. Very common. Good job in finding it. It is likely the cause of your EML.

It is item 6 in this diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=CN52-EUR-04-2000-Z3-BMW-Z3_30i&diagId=13_1747
Note that as your car is a 3.0L it has a bigger tube. The above part number is the right one for your car.

You can find all the part number you need by going to WWW.RealOEM.com and put the last 7 digits into the search tool. This will allow you to browse for part specific to your car.

 

[Amz]

Well, that was the split in the rubber pipe that I was talking about. Very common. Good job in finding it. It is likely the cause of your EML.

It is item 6 in this diagram: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=CN52-EUR-04-2000-Z3-BMW-Z3_30i&diagId=13_1747
Note that as your car is a 3.0L it has a bigger tube. The above part number is the right one for your car.

You can find all the part number you need by going to WWW.RealOEM.com and put the last 7 digits into the search tool. This will allow you to browse for part specific to your car.

Many many thanks for your help on this. I must have been looking in the wrong place on oem parts but glad you were able to point me to the right page.

Called up BMW dealer today and they quoted £27 for the part and a local GSF store quoted £11. Is it best to stick to genuine parts for the hoses?

Kind regards

Amz

 

[mrscalex]

I’ve used a non-genuine part on a 3.0 for this job and it wasn’t quite made to the correct shape. it was a fight to fit and still didn’t sit right. I would recommend genuine for the sake of £16 extra.

 

[Amz]

I’ve used a non-genuine part on a 3.0 for this job and it wasn’t quite made to the correct shape. it was a fight to fit and still didn’t sit right. I would recommend genuine for the sake of £16 extra.

That's a very good point especially as its already quite tight in that area and a fiddly task.

Many thanks
Kind regards

Amit

 

[mrscalex]

That's a very good point especially as its already quite tight in that area and a fiddly task.

Many thanks
Kind regards

Amit

Still a bargain if that gets you off a £1,200 bill or large part of it. Whereabouts are you? I might be able to help run a smoke test.

 

[mrscalex]

Point being that may not be your only vacuum leak.

 

[Amz]

Update - I picked up the part from my local BMW dealership, luckily they had one in stock. Then with the help from my father, total credit to him, as without him I don't have the skills and determination to have attempted the fix myself. It took a while to replace as mentioned by others the screws on the hose clips are hard to reach especially if like me you don't have the right tools. Plus I had to remove the gruppe m air filter along with another air filter hose pipe to allow easier access.

I then started her up and took her for a 20 minute drive and no lights have come on so far including the abs/dsc light. I will take her for a drive another 2-3 times this week and see if the lights stay off and furthermore the dsc switch on the center console was functioning again. I have heard from other's experience that the lights can come back unexpected. Fingers crossed.

Let's hope this was the only vacuum leak however should the lights return then defo a smoke test will be carried out.

Will provide updates.

Many thanks again to everyone especially @NZ00Z3

Kind regards

Amit

 

[mrscalex]

Update - I picked up the part from my local BMW dealership, luckily they had one in stock. Then with the help from my father, total credit to him, as without him I don't have the skills and determination to have attempted the fix myself. It took a while to replace as mentioned by others the screws on the hose clips are hard to reach especially if like me you don't have the right tools. Plus I had to remove the gruppe m air filter along with another air filter hose pipe to allow easier access.

I then started her up and took her for a 20 minute drive and no lights have come on so far including the abs/dsc light. I will take her for a drive another 2-3 times this week and see if the lights stay off and furthermore the dsc switch on the center console was functioning again. I have heard from other's experience that the lights can come back unexpected. Fingers crossed.

Let's hope this was the only vacuum leak however should the lights return then defo a smoke test will be carried out.

Will provide updates.

Many thanks again to everyone especially @NZ00Z3

Kind regards

Amit

Now you know why we all stick around and help each other on this forum. £1,200 indeed!

 

[Amz]

Now you know why we all stick around and help each other on this forum. £1,200 indeed!

Agreed and this hasn't been the first time too. A real bunch of kind folk on here

hopefully get to see ya all in person at a future meet.

will monitor the situation and report back.

many thanks
Amz

 

[t-tony]

Now you know why we all stick around and help each other on this forum. £1,200 indeed!

Well said Murray.

Tony.

 

[colb]

Be a good move to make a visit to one of the Zed Sheds so they can put a scanner on it and see what codes the garage were eluding to regarding the DSC/ABS lights, you have sorted the air leak by replacing that split rubber. @t-tony near Lincoln is your nearest, the others are Basingstoke, Lydney, Gloucestershire and ours in Newport, South Wales. With a good code reader you can see what those brake pressure sensors are doing, they either work or they don't, easy to monitor them with a scanner. If they were faulty they should set codes and light the DSC light to draw attention to the fault. Sorting another members DSC problem currently but that looks like a duff Steering Angle Sensor causing an intermittant fault on his car. Just started a new thread on that one. If your ever down the South Wales area you are always welcome to call in for a quick once over at Zed shed Cymru

 

[Amz]

Be a good move to make a visit to one of the Zed Sheds so they can put a scanner on it and see what codes the garage were eluding to regarding the DSC/ABS lights, you have sorted the air leak by replacing that split rubber. @t-tony near Lincoln is your nearest, the others are Basingstoke, Lydney, Gloucestershire and ours in Newport, South Wales. With a good code reader you can see what those brake pressure sensors are doing, they either work or they don't, easy to monitor them with a scanner. If they were faulty they should set codes and light the DSC light to draw attention to the fault. Sorting another members DSC problem currently but that looks like a duff Steering Angle Sensor causing an intermittant fault on his car. Just started a new thread on that one. If your ever down the South Wales area you are always welcome to call in for a quick once over at Zed shed Cymru

That would be wonderful

In the meantime, I will be downloading and setting up the INPA software along with buying the relevant cables (K+DCAN switched cable and 20 to 16 pin adaptor).

Many thanks

Amz

 

[colb]

INPA can be problamatic setting it up on a laptop so be prepared to persevere to get it working correctly, also a lot of the scipts are in German, at least it is on mine. I also run a couple of other diagnostic software, easy to use and will read all modules on the car is BMW Scanner 1.4 which is PA Soft software. For portability I also hace a Creator 310+ handheld scanner, that is a good bit of kit, reads all the cars modules and clears codes and allows viewing of live data from sensors which is useful.

 

[Amz]

INPA can be problamatic setting it up on a laptop so be prepared to persevere to get it working correctly, also a lot of the scipts are in German, at least it is on mine. I also run a couple of other diagnostic software, easy to use and will read all modules on the car is BMW Scanner 1.4 which is PA Soft software. For portability I also hace a Creator 310+ handheld scanner, that is a good bit of kit, reads all the cars modules and clears codes and allows viewing of live data from sensors which is useful.

Yeah I have heard the same about the German language when it comes to INPA.

I was about to purchase one of these as well ( BMW Scanner 1.4 which is PA Soft software. For portability I also have a Creator 310+ handheld scanner). Will purchase the creator for portability

Thanks

Amz