Saw this on MSM and thought it might ease some worries for some members.
Tony.
Tony.
E10 fuel.
- Thread starter t-tony
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Isn’t there some risk for those of us who plan to SORN their cars over winter. Is there a recommended additive to stabilise the fuel? ..similar to the kind of thing I use in my petrol lawnmower
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I never leave any fuel in my petrol mowers over winter, I just run them out of fuel. Two strokes I’ll leave fuel in, but not much.
Tony.
Tony.
Yes there some risk - as its hydroscopic - additive wise plenty of E5 fuel
Seriously, when you are planning to sorn, i'd fill up with E5, run and refill again with E5
Good article here about it, further down advises about laying your car up.
www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/john-naish-will-new-type-of-petrol-wreck-your-car/ar-AANZSl8
It aslo gives an insight as the how this came about, along with some other interesting details.
Good article ! I also don’t leave petrol in my mowers over winter..but I do put the additive in the Jerry can at the start of spring when I fill it. ..anyway it all seems largely academic as it says petrol mowers will be the first thing to break
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I run my 48 year old lotus on ethanol free petrol. I can do this because it doesn't travel far and is always based at home. My Z is a different matter as sometimes I have to top up en route however I try to use what's in the tank and top up with ethanol free fuel when home. There is still some fuel in the tank, but it is diluted by the pure petrol so theoretically it should be less than 10% ethanol. It is a nuisance but I deem it necessary. I usually buy 20 litres in a Jerry can, remove the ethanol, and try to keep a store of pure petrol for grass cutters etc. I have been doing this for a couple of years now. One drawback is you are paying for fuel that you are disposing.
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I used to run my mowers on Aspen 4 ....not sure I can justify £2.50 a litre in the Zed though
When you say "remove the ethanol"...how do you do that ?
Should help in principle . . .
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Nothing , if you do it properly. Just make sure that you drain off some of the pure petrol to make sure there is no water left in the main vat.What on earth could go wrong!
You probably have the same fear factor that I had before I stripped the fats from used cooking oil before putting it in my diesel van.
This looks a lot more simple than making "diesel" from used cooking oil. At least its only water and not drain cleaner.
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What I like about that video, he measures quantities before and after. So you can calculate percentages, and see if it matches the 5% / 10% you were expecting. If figures dont match - dont use it.
Now doing that for 50 litres to pour into a petrol tank . . . Hmmmm . . . Step by step I suppose . . .
Now doing that for 50 litres to pour into a petrol tank . . . Hmmmm . . . Step by step I suppose . . .
Whilst I agree that nothing could go wrong if done properly I predict people running around on fire as Darwin Award winners will see this clip too and give it a go. A lovely warm day in garage X somewhere in the World playing with a highly flammable liquid, lots of vapour, an ignition source that has not been recognised = Orange affro, no eyebrows and some energetic dancing. Just don't would be my advice
Agree to a point, but, messing around with diesel is much less likely to end in a conflagration than with highly inflammable petrol.
Tony.
The blanket approval by BMW for use of E10 is pretty suspect - probably made by some marketing man who has no grasp of anything but the current cars. I remember a statement from BMW that all engines since 1986 are approved for use with E10 - no problem for us, but owners of pre-'86 cars have had problems. I read of a 635 which refused to start after refuelling while in France, and was recovered to the UK, where the tank was drained and filled with 'real' petrol - after which it ran perfectly.
While our cars will run on the stuff, remember that when compared to a good 98 octane your engine will not provide full power or its best fuel consumption. Ethanol may be a good cheap anti-knock additive, but like all alcohols is a poor fuel. Its anti-knock properties, however, enable our engine ECU to gain more ignition advance, which allows the engine to rev better . . . but that should not be confused with more power!
I always use 98 octane, which (unlike the UK) is available all over France, finding that for 3% more cost I get 10% better fuel consumption - but not all fuels are equal. I remember one long autoroute trip, cruising at 80 mph, and getting 35 mpg (by calculation) on my local supermarket 98 octane, until I filled up with Shell V-Power - after which consumption increased to a miserable 28 mpg! I have found the same difference when using V-Power in the UK. It probably gets its octane rating by an overdose of ethanol - remember that the E5 or E10 rating is a minimum percentage, and can be exceeded without notice.
Remember also that 98 octane will store over winter without problems - I have seen lawnmowers which will not start after a winter layup unless fed with butane gas into the air filter! I use 98 in all my garden machinery, and never have any problems after stagnation over winter.
I have not driven in the UK for a few years, but on my last few trips I found that under steady-speed motorway running the best 97 octane was Esso Supreme, which was akin to French Total Excellium 98. The worst 97 was, of course, V-Power. The best 95 octane was also by Esso, the worst being from Tesco near Ashford. Of course, things have probably deteriorated since then - I'm glad I live in France!
While our cars will run on the stuff, remember that when compared to a good 98 octane your engine will not provide full power or its best fuel consumption. Ethanol may be a good cheap anti-knock additive, but like all alcohols is a poor fuel. Its anti-knock properties, however, enable our engine ECU to gain more ignition advance, which allows the engine to rev better . . . but that should not be confused with more power!
I always use 98 octane, which (unlike the UK) is available all over France, finding that for 3% more cost I get 10% better fuel consumption - but not all fuels are equal. I remember one long autoroute trip, cruising at 80 mph, and getting 35 mpg (by calculation) on my local supermarket 98 octane, until I filled up with Shell V-Power - after which consumption increased to a miserable 28 mpg! I have found the same difference when using V-Power in the UK. It probably gets its octane rating by an overdose of ethanol - remember that the E5 or E10 rating is a minimum percentage, and can be exceeded without notice.
Remember also that 98 octane will store over winter without problems - I have seen lawnmowers which will not start after a winter layup unless fed with butane gas into the air filter! I use 98 in all my garden machinery, and never have any problems after stagnation over winter.
I have not driven in the UK for a few years, but on my last few trips I found that under steady-speed motorway running the best 97 octane was Esso Supreme, which was akin to French Total Excellium 98. The worst 97 was, of course, V-Power. The best 95 octane was also by Esso, the worst being from Tesco near Ashford. Of course, things have probably deteriorated since then - I'm glad I live in France!
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Total made an ethanol free fuel called Total UL90 for aviation use. It could be found at some but not all club type airfields and some small UK airports. It was highly irregular to buy it for road use, but it was done
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Just to bring up something that was said earlier about BMW saying all their engines 1990 on are E10 safe .
What I would say is in 1990 the clean air act was passed introducing E10 fuel to the US marketplace our US cousins zeds are not all falling apart running on E10 so neither should ours
I have now ran several tanks of E10 over 3 trips Zedfest August 672 miles E5 on way down E10 way back .
Lakes run September 646 miles 2/3 rds on E10
Scottish run last week 682 miles all on E10 .
Can't say I notice any difference in performance or economy so far .
Stephen.
What I would say is in 1990 the clean air act was passed introducing E10 fuel to the US marketplace our US cousins zeds are not all falling apart running on E10 so neither should ours
I have now ran several tanks of E10 over 3 trips Zedfest August 672 miles E5 on way down E10 way back .
Lakes run September 646 miles 2/3 rds on E10
Scottish run last week 682 miles all on E10 .
Can't say I notice any difference in performance or economy so far .
Stephen.
My understanding is that it's not a problem with the octane. It's seals and materials etc of the fuel line where e10 can, kind of, leak through smaller gaps in the seals or even soak through the fuel line material itself causing leaks.
BMW's statement refers to the materials used to make their fuel lines being ok for e10.
Or something like that.
As I said. Just "my" understanding of the problem so I'm probably wrong.
BMW's statement refers to the materials used to make their fuel lines being ok for e10.
Or something like that.
As I said. Just "my" understanding of the problem so I'm probably wrong.
The biggest possible/probable issue could be from leaving E10 fuel standing in a vehicle over long periods, ie Sorning over the winter. As Steve has said they've been using 10% in the USA for a long time now.
Tony.
Tony.
Oi! E10 is all we’ve had here in the US for a long long time, probably 10-20 years, and I don’t notice any issues at all. No leaks at all, plenty of power, and about 28 mpg in my 2.8. My 35 year old carbureted Jeep cj7 also runs on e10 with no problems, no leaks, starts every time.