Car not cranking or starting

[Unreal]

Evening all.

My 1999 2.8 has been sitting for a few weeks and now won't start. It won't turn over, central locking isn't working and the hazards are flashing. The hazards will stop after a few minutes but then opening a door or trying to start the car will get them going again. No siren going off. The battery is fully charged and the car has never failed to start before.

The car got very wet so an electrical/alarm/immobiliser issue is obviously top of my list. I found the tilt switch flooded in the left hand corner of the boot floor and the whole boot area full of condensation. I got all the water out, dried everything as best I could, disconnected the switch and the other connections in there for the roof motor and sprayed everything with contact cleaner. Has made no difference. I've left the car place in the dry now and will be going back to it this week so wondered if anyone can give any pointers to working through a sequence for getting it going.

TIA

 

[Althulas]

Do your remotes work to arm and disarm the alarm system? From your description I was suspecting the alarm fob out of sync with the alarm module. This thread maybe useful if you have the brick type alarm fob https://zroadster.org/articles/3g-ews-remote-fob-programming.24/

If you have your documents you should have a yellow envelope with a card in with a security code. In the alarm manual it tells you how to input the code via the ignition switch.

I would remove the tilt sensor and place it somewhere warm to fully dry it out I hope it’s not b*******. Looks like you need either a new aerial grommets or 3rd brake light gasket.

 

[Unreal]

T

Do your remotes work to arm and disarm the alarm system? From your description I was suspecting the alarm fob out of sync with the alarm module. This thread maybe useful if you have the brick type alarm fob https://zroadster.org/articles/3g-ews-remote-fob-programming.24/

If you have your documents you should have a yellow envelope with a card in with a security code. In the alarm manual it tells you how to input the code via the ignition switch.

I would remove the tilt sensor and place it somewhere warm to fully dry it out I hope it’s not b*******. Looks like you need either a new aerial grommets or 3rd brake light gasket.

Thanks for your reply.

There are no remotes. Just a single key without any remote options on it that I used for everything. Likewise, no yellow envelope with a code so it may be the siren/alarm has been removed. I won't see the car again until tomorrow but I can check that then.

Would BMW normally be able to supply a spare key with remote with proof of ownership?

 

[Althulas]

BMW don’t sell the brick type separate remote anymore but you can buy secondhand ones on eBay. Also there was the later version from sometime in 1998 where you had the remote buttons on the key itself which can still be purchased. Looking in that thread I suggested you would need to remove the glove box to see which alarm module you have.

if you enter your VIN here https://www.mdecoder.com/ you can check your build sheet maybe to see if it had a alarm system fitted. From your description though I suspect it does.

 

[Unreal]

Thanks. Yes S302 alarm system fitted.

I'm really not bothered about having a remote for a two door car. BMW have just said that the car can only be supplied with a replacement (non remote key). Are you saying that I will need a remote to reset?

 

[Althulas]

To reset the alarm yes. Do you have a red telltale light somewhere on your Centre console that should be blinking. Saying that you should still be able to start the car. When you next look at it make sure you have a fully charged battery and the connections are secure insert your key and turn just to the position where your dash lights come on and leave for at least 10 seconds as there should be a chip in your key that handshakes with the ZKE and should then still start. Did you have this problem with the hazards going off all the time?

 

[Unreal]

If I remember correctly, it was a very rapidly flashing red light next to the radio. Everything working apart from the central locking, so lights, wipers, etc all fine. It just wouldn't crank.
Never been any problems with hazards, starting or anything else ever before.
I'll try it as suggested tomorrow with a fully charged battery and report back.
I'll be amazed if it's not connected to the water ingress.

 

[Unreal]

Update.
Battery fully charged. Also swapped with another good one which made no difference.
Leaving the key in the ignition triggers the alarm after a couple of minutes.
Yesterday no alarm at all just the hazards. Now the alarm goes off as soon as the ignition key is turned. Hazards on all the time the ignition.
Everything else working apart from central locking.
Now, before I left the key in which has now led to the constant alarm problem, I did connect up to a code reader and was able to see a load of central locking faults including a short and fuse issue. I've checked every fuse under the bonnet and they are all good.
I then started to read something with I thing said there was an inferface fault with the ecu at which point the alarm started and it's now simply too loud to do anything with it sounding.
So my priority now is to shut the siren off - doesn't appear to be possible via fuses so any advice on that and next step? Reading the codes is a priority of course once I can have silence.
I took the tilt switch out from the rear. It sounds as if it's full of water but isn't that how a tilt switch works?
All the shenanigans have happened with it unplugged.

 

[Althulas]

The tilt switch shouldn’t sounds as it’s full of water will need drying out. As for the siren can be silenced with a key either a small barrel shaped one or on the newer alarm a blade type key but I’m presuming you don’t have one. You can unbolt the siren and then in my case could be unplugged at the siren it’s self. I am theorising that the fault codes are all related to the system not being synced to a fob or key.

Can you post pics of what keys you have.

 

[Unreal]

The tilt switch shouldn’t sounds as it’s full of water will need drying out. As for the siren can be silenced with a key either a small barrel shaped one or on the newer alarm a blade type key but I’m presuming you don’t have one. You can unbolt the siren and then in my case could be unplugged at the siren it’s self. I am theorising that the fault codes are all related to the system not being synced to a fob or key.

Can you post pics of what keys you have.

Thanks for the continued help.

Tilt switch is drying out.

I found an extra key which is the big black one in the photo and which looks unused and does light up. Has a central push button. Unfortunately it doesn't make any difference to the issues. The grey key has no push button and is the one I've always used with the car. Then there's the small plastic one.
The two large keys both trigger the alarm as soon as the key is turned. This is worse than before when just the hazards were flashing so something has changed.

I haven't used the plastic blade key in the ignition. If I can shut the damn alarm up I'll be able to read the codes.

.

 

[Althulas]

From those keys you have the same as me so you must have the alarm that requires the separate fob but can be confirmed by removing the glove box and taking the module out of the cradle and taking a pic to confirm or by looking at this thread (the guide) which is also a useful read.

I’m sure the only way to sort the alarm problem is by syncing a replacement fob to your system but to be honest I’ve never looked at bypassing but the alarm can be removed https://zroadster.org/threads/alarm-3g-ews-how-do-i-remove-it.42411/#:~:text=They are removed by finding,wires and reconnect two originals. I am presuming that you can now start your car which would confirm the hand shake is ok between your key and the ZKE.

After confirming which alarm system you have I’m sure it will be the same as mine but the cheapest well only remote I can see on eBay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12642514...6FB3kPHTJG&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

But there is this seller but you will have to message to see if he has a bmw one complete https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/11554377...6FB3kPHTJG&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[Unreal]

Thanks again.

I think I'll have a go at silencing the alarm so I can get back in and read the fault codes. I have left the car disconnected overnight.

No, the car doesn't crank or start. Everything works apart from the central locking and the starting issue.

Put the key in and just turn to position 1 and the alarm goes off and hazards flash. Before yesterday, I could put the key in and I was just getting the flashing hazards. Should have read the codes then! The siren sounding only started after I tried the suggestion to leave the key in. Now that situation can't be reversed and it's siren every time. I'd try leaving it sounding to see if it syncs but it is unacceptably loud so disconnecting the siren is the only acceptable option for neighbours.

One last question. I have checked for water in the fuse box under the bonnet and it's all dry and every fuse is ok. I've disconnected all the electrical connections in the boot. Are there any other fuses and where is the ECU in the car?

 

[Althulas]

I don’t have a 2.8 so not sure of ECU location but

View: https://youtu.be/5CrnQbLn1_k?si=xCQM94FhkmV0jLxV


Have a look in the resource section for wiring diagrams I’m sure this is for yours but check https://zroadster.org/resources/1999-z3-z3m-electrical-troubleshooting-manual.13/

Have a look at post 6 https://zroadster.org/threads/z3-2-...ews-any-assistance-gratefully-received.49587/ gives a logical checking sequence ( taken me ages to find that post I thought I book marked it)

 

[Unreal]

Well, it's fixed, but I'm not certain how! I'll outline what I did for now and update with a couple of specifics in a day or so.

I went back to the car this morning after leaving the battery disconnected overnight.
Connecting it up resulted in exactly the same problem as last night. As soon as a door was opened or key in the ignition the siren would go off and the hazards would flash. Everything worked apart from no cranking and no central locking. So here's what I did:

1) battery disconnected
2) siren disconnected - mine is under the underbonnet fuse box. It helps to lift the washer fluid reservoir to one side. It's fiddly but my siren then had a clip electrical connection that you can only disconnect by feel.
3) battery reconnected which mean no change from 1) apart from silence
4) Noted the hazard flashing stopped after about two minutes. I assume it would have done this anyway but the siren was too loud to find out
5) Connected up all the connections in the boot for the roof motor etc apart from the multipin to the tilt switch (letting that dry out).
6) I then connected up my Foxwell scanner and looked at the codes. Bearing in mind the flooded tilt switch I wasn't surprised to see a lot of faults around shorts and central locking. There was only one fault that looked unfamiliar - ID 80 DME: DME-EWS interface.
7) Cleared all the codes - car still not cranking or starting and still no central locking and still hazards flashing
8) Went back to the scanner - no fault codes showing
9) Went into a 'service' option on the scanner and there was what looked like a reset option - will update with the exact wording
10) Bingo! Everything works on all keys, central locking ok and hazards off.

Moral of the story has to be have a decent code reader.

 

[t-tony]

Glad you got it running and others will appreciate you laying out on here. Which Foxwell scanner did you use please?

Tony.

 

[Unreal]

It's the Foxwell NT530 for BMW and Mini. Retails around £170. I purchased from Gendan. There are cheap knock offs floating around so be careful if you see significantly cheaper. I find it easy to use and I'm not a technical person.

 

[Duncodin]

Glad you got it running and others will appreciate you laying out on here. Which Foxwell scanner did you use please?

Tony.

@t-tony Would that have been an imobilizer thing preventing the cranking? Wierd that proper key in the ignition wasn't enough to stop the alarm and allow start.

 

[t-tony]

Hopefully an explaination from the OP will clarify it.

Tony.

 

[t-tony]

It's the Foxwell NT530 for BMW and Mini. Retails around £170. I purchased from Gendan. There are cheap knock offs floating around so be careful if you see significantly cheaper. I find it easy to use and I'm not a technical person.

Yes, that the route I went. They're a good bit of kit I think.

Tony.