BMW Z3 Clutch replacement - pick your brains

[Mark h]

Could I please ask for your help in telling me how much I should expect to pay for a new clutch fitted .
I have received several quotes but they seem vastly different from garage to garage..my brain tells me to go for the middle but knowledge is power..
Thank you very much for your help and time
Mark

 

[hard top]

Have you tried these chaps........?

http://www.emtecsalisbury.com/

 

[Mark h]

Thank you Mike...they look very good and of course local
I will give them a call on Monday
Have a good weekend
Mark

 

[GazHyde]

I'll second Emtec. I've used them for both my Z3's over the last few years.

They know the cars, and unlike other garages don't convince you to do work that's not needed!

 

[Mark h]

Your a gentleman ..thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.

 

[Zeti]

Mark, because clutch it's an important "next" for everyone, I want to ask you why do you want to replace it?
It has the classic symptoms of wear?
It's the first time and what mileage it has?
Any others comments will be more than welcome!

 

[Mark h]

Mark, because clutch it's an important "next" for everyone, I want to ask you why do you want to replace it?
It has the classic symptoms of wear?
It's the first time and what mileage it has?
Any others comments will be more than welcome!

Hi Zeti
I could be wrong but I don't have to depress the clutch more than an inch to change gear.
I was stopped at one of the MANY traffic lights on my way to work..lights turned green ,I selected first ...lots of rev no movement,just engine noise

I have only owned the car for a month so I cant say when things were replaced.but at 132k could be time to
Hope this is OK for you
Stay safe
Mark

 

[t-tony]

As a general rule regarding clutch wear, the higher you have to lift the clutch pedal to achieve traction, the more worn out it's likely to be. At 132k it could well be time for it to be replaced if it's the original clutch it has done remarkably well.

 

[Zeti]

Thanks Mark but I'm still a little worried because also I have to depress the clutch not more than 1 1/2 inch and there is no dead play to the pedal. Despite that, the grip it's good and still able to squeeze the tires (just for test purpose only).
During the meeting with my Italian friends I noticed in a couple of M44 also a high level of the pedal, with no play to the pedal, which in other cars it's a bad sign. So I'm still a bit confused..........
There is a bloody tool with we can check the thickness of the plate , but unfortunately I couldn't find the dimensions; even in the dealer's workshops nobody ordered.......
If anybody from the M44 Massive knows the dimensions of this tool it will be very easy to replicate it.
(You take out the slave cylinder, replace it with the mentioned tool and read (on the good side of the pointer) if you are between or out wear limits. Theoretically you know when to prepare your budget.........)

 

[TaffZee]

Just a word of warning before you change the clutch, when I first bought a Zed it was a 1.9, when pulling away it showed signs of clutch slip and the pedal would come to the top before it bit, I thought it needed a clutch so £700 lighter (Dual mass and plate bought) I took it to my indy, I received a telephone call an hour later from the mechanic stating that nothing was wrong with the clutch and that it was the clutch hose that was the problem, got him to replace the clutch anyway along with a new braided clutch hose, so I have a dual mass flywheel that looks as new with no play at all in it sitting in the garage If you have not replaced the hose, I would do that first...

 

[FRANKIE]

Could I please ask for your help in telling me how much I should expect to pay for a new clutch fitted .
I have received several quotes but they seem vastly different from garage to garage..my brain tells me to go for the middle but knowledge is power..
Thank you very much for your help and time
Mark

I've never replaced the clutch on a BMW, however, I have replaced the clutches on many other cars, always doing it myself. If you get a new clutch disk and pressure plate, and don't replace the flywheel, which isn't always done, make sure you have it resurfaced. Also make sure you put in a new throw-out bearing and a new pilot bearing. Ask your mechanic to give you the pilot tool used to line up the disk behind the pressure plate when they put it on. It may never have to be used again but if you need it, you have it. Frankie (at work).PS The pilot tool comes with the new clutch. It is unique to that clutch disk or the engine and transmission. I have at least 3 different pilot tools at home just for hondas. You pay for this tool when you buy the clutch.

 

[Mark h]

I've never replaced the clutch on a BMW, however, I have replaced the clutches on many other cars, always doing it myself. If you get a new clutch disk and pressure plate, and don't replace the flywheel, which isn't always done, make sure you have it resurfaced. Also make sure you put in a new throw-out bearing and a new pilot bearing. Ask your mechanic to give you the pilot tool used to line up the disk behind the pressure plate when they put it on. It may never have to be used again but if you need it, you have it. Frankie (at work).PS The pilot tool comes with the new clutch. It is unique to that clutch disk or the engine and transmission. I have at least 3 different pilot tools at home just for hondas. You pay for this tool when you buy the clutch.

Thank you Frankie...I am envious of your knowledge..
I know nothing past fuel,air and water..I then enter the twilight zone...surrounded by intelligent people like 99%of people on this forum ..out of my depth and gasping for air
My usual way out is to drive my car into a building packed with men and tools,hand them my keys and walk away whistling
I would love to have your knowledge but I must resign myself to being mechanically ignorant...
Thank you so much for your help it is very kind of you

 

[Mark h]

As a general rule regarding clutch wear, the higher you have to lift the clutch pedal to achieve traction, the more worn out it's likely to be. At 132k it could well be time for it to be replaced if it's the original clutch it has done remarkably well.

Thank you Tony ...so I am on the right path

 

[Mark h]

Just a word of warning before you change the clutch, when I first bought a Zed it was a 1.9, when pulling away it showed signs of clutch slip and the pedal would come to the top before it bit, I thought it needed a clutch so £700 lighter (Dual mass and plate bought) I took it to my indy, I received a telephone call an hour later from the mechanic stating that nothing was wrong with the clutch and that it was the clutch hose that was the problem, got him to replace the clutch anyway along with a new braided clutch hose, so I have a dual mass flywheel that looks as new with no play at all in it sitting in the garage If you have not replaced the hose, I would do that first...

Thank you for the heads up £700 is a hunk of money ..that said its something I can get new for my car without the wife noticing thanks again ...its appreciated

 

[TaffZee]

Mark for future reference, if your clutch is indeed faulty, it is suggested that the Dual Mass Flywheel is also changed, if you need to replace it due to excessive play in the springs or pitting/wear to the flywheel faces then you are very welcome to the one I have stowed away, the mechanic has told me that it is in super condition with no signs of wear or play,if you need it PM me your address and I will get it to you. The surface of a dual mass cannot be skimmed. and I would not recommend doing it for any other flywheel, as this will reduce the pressure placed on the clutch plate which "will" lead to premature clutch slip.

A Dual Mass Flywheel will set you back around £200 and a clutch kit is around £150.

Explanation of a dual mass flywheel: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/dual-mass-flywheels/

Hope this is of help.

Regards

Jim

 

[FRANKIE]

Thank you for the heads up £700 is a hunk of money ..that said its something I can get new for my car without the wife noticing thanks again ...its appreciated

Mark, I've read what Jim has written and I was confused about him saying that a DMF ( dual mass flywheel) can't be skimmed. It was at this point that I had to research the DMF as I had never replaced one. I started with the u-tube hyperlink Jim provided. I noticed that they are used for diesels to dampen vibration, but are also used for passenger cars. This video seems to indicate some problems inherent with them. The grinding of the flywheel I was referring to is only done with single mass flywheels. When this is done, an extremely small amount of material is removed. Usually about 20 thousands of an inch. I called a shop that specializes in flywheel resurfacing and they highly recommend the procedure. This procedure removes hot spots caused be excessive heat and any unevenness that can cause clutch chatter. To be fair, this can cause the new clutch to fail sooner but only an extremely small amount and cannot compare to the resulting smooth clean operation the new clutch is able to achieve against a clean even surface. This is a video of a clutch surface being reconditioned:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7AjwdIWh4c&feature=player_embedded
A good video of what a DMF is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=MfNjARZc5Wo
The video that Jim provided gave me some second thought about these units as evidenced by this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DHapjYefAt4
In my first post to you, I talked about replacing the clutch and the parts involved. This may have been like Greek to you but the following video shows what a lot of the parts that I referred to are. Take special notice of the pilot bearing, throw out bearing and the clutch disk pilot tool I was referring to. It helps if you move ahead during the video to skip removing the exhaust and other parts of the video that don't apply to the clutch.Frankie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kaM8RgUWmKM

 

[Zeti]

Well documented post!
Thanks Frankie!

 

[FRANKIE]

Well documented post!
Thanks Frankie!

Here's something else on oil:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3zEBI1QndPo

I thought you might find this interesting. About 30 years ago or so I was speaking to the brother of my best friend. He was, at that time, a chemist at DuPont. He gave me a copy of a report on synthetic oil that they had completed a few years earlier. They were responsible for testing this oil in an engine. They had run the engine for just over 100,000 miles and then broke down the engine to examine the parts. They were surprised to find out just how well the oil had protected the engine. But one of the items that was in the report was that of all the tests on oils and additives they had performed, they had never seen, upon breaking down the engine, machine marks still evident on engine parts. The normal wear and tear had removed the machine marks from the manufacturing process of those parts. The oil had protected the parts so well that the original machine markings were still evident. That oil, they found out later, was Mobil 1. What's even more surprising is that after knowing this for all this time, I never could bring myself to use it in my car.

 

[TaffZee]

Hi Frankie, you are correct that all flywheels can be resurfaced, and that it would be better to skim one rather than use the pitted old FW, but rule of thumb is that because of the work involved in changing the clutch and that the Single Mass flywheel compared to the labour charges is relatively small it would be prudent to replace the flywheel regardless of condition.

As for the Dual Mass the weak spot in these are the damping springs that smooth out the power transfer (As you know on SMF these springs are built into the clutch plate and get replaced when the clutch plate is changed) these become weak and I would never try to recover a damaged one, as weak springs will cause a rough transfer through the gears.

The one that I have tucked away has no pitting or wear on the plate, and the spring pressure has been tested and is the same as the new one I fitted, I assume that someone like me not knowing about the problem with the clutch hose replaced the clutch very recently before me buying the car.

 

[FRANKIE]

Hi Frankie, you are correct that all flywheels can be resurfaced, and that it would be better to skim one rather than use the pitted old FW, but rule of thumb is that because of the work involved in changing the clutch and that the Single Mass flywheel compared to the labour charges is relatively small it would be prudent to replace the flywheel regardless of condition.

As for the Dual Mass the weak spot in these are the damping springs that smooth out the power transfer (As you know on SMF these springs are built into the clutch plate and get replaced when the clutch plate is changed) these become weak and I would never try to recover a damaged one, as weak springs will cause a rough transfer through the gears.

The one that I have tucked away has no pitting or wear on the plate, and the spring pressure has been tested and is the same as the new one I fitted, I assume that someone like me not knowing about the problem with the clutch hose replaced the clutch very recently before me buying the car.

You're right. The cost of a replacement FW is low enough to buy new and not resurface.