Another crank, no start.

[Steve C]

I've searched and read through plenty of these types of thread looking for clues on my own situation but no luck as yet, so I am throwing this out to the Z community in anticipation of a spark of genius.

The car.
An early '98 Z3 1.9 M44
Air-con, Alarm, Power hood.
Boshe DME ver M5.2 with EWS 2
Sat in a garage for 5 years.

The problem.
Cranks but does not start.
Battery recharged and holds its charge. Also used a booster pack in case but cranks like a trooper.
Fuses and relays all checked (3 times) All good. (1 fuse blown but tracked to boot loom and repaired)
No spark at plugs - Power goes to coil pack but I think no signal from DME to activate.
Fuel pump does not prime when ignition is switched on. Fuel pump works by running a direct supply. Wiring good to relay but no signal from DME to activate.
Have a copy of INPA connected and running from the 20 pin under the bonnet. Only errors are from disconnecting the battery supply to recharge.
Crank and cam sensors have been checked and are showing correct resistance.
Connections between EWS/DME ok
Wiring between DME and fuel relay ok
All earth points checked.

From my research so far (I think) the EWS is doing it's job (recognising the key and allowing the starter to operate).
I assume that either the EWS & DME are not talking or just that the DME may be faulty.
Does any one know of a reliable company that I can send the DME for checking? Most require the whole car but I'm trying to do this on a budget.
I am now scratching my head and could do with a few pointers. Any one know where I should be looking next?
Are there any more systems that may stop the DME from operating the fuel/spark?
I have loads of other work (service, brake lines, rocker gasket, rear screen, MOT) to do on the car but wont start these until the car does.
Thanks for reading.
Steve

 

[Stevo7682]

Hi Steve.
You could have a rolling immobiliser coding issue.
@Delk had similar symptoms in his 2.8 I was going to be down his way on holiday at the time popped in with my code reader but his was showing a fault code with a bit of assistance by @mrscalex he got his zed running again.
Not saying this is what is wrong with yours.
Do you only have 1 key or do you have both and if so are they both the same.

 

[Steve C]

Hi Stevo

I have x3 keys for the ignition.
x1 has the key and button for inbuilt light (separate fob for the alarm)
x1 standard key and x1 plastic key
All keys work the locks and ignition and all crank.

From my searches on this I was under the impression that the rolling code was only on EWS 3 and onwards.
Most probably wrong on this as electronics is stretching myself a bit. Give me a mechanical problem any day.

INPA gives no codes.
I have read other threads where INPA will align the EWS and DME but the version I have been able to install does not have this option.
Would this be an early version?

 

[mrscalex]

@Steve C you've clearly done your reading up on old threads and I commend you for that as many don't bother and just ask the question. I like it like that - so good on you

My expertise, if you can call it that, is around EWS3 which certainly has rolling codes and can sometimes require a resync.

But checking my notes back EWS2 still requires a security match between the EWS and DME but it's done by a more basic code system. Which can get out sync too. So it may still be that - I would certainly start with a resync which you'll find in INPA (not sure where - I use a different tool). Although you might expect an error code. Sorry not sure.

I have an extensive document on the operation of the EWS which I will PM to you. There's a lot of info in there but I suspect you're the sort of guy who is logical and will be able to follow it. I don't want to post it on here as it could be used maliciously by crims if they pay a visit to the forum.

I'm a bit stumped as to what else to look for at the moment. You've done all the sensible stuff. But don't go down the road of the DME being faulty yet. It's very, very rare. But unless the early cars are very different to the later cars I'm more familiar with then the odds are on the DME not releasing the ignition as it's not happy with something, most likely the ISN code mentioned.

 

[Delk]

When mine went out of sync the fuel pump would prime and there was ignition if i remember correctly. The engine would crank but the injectors would not be released to fire the engine.

Good luck. Its not nice standing next to a car that simply wont move.

 

[Steve C]

Thanks for the PM mrscalex
I think I have seen this before on previous research.
I will have to re-visit and try to get my head around all the handshaking going on.
EWS 1 was a basic 1st system and EWS 2 added the key transponder.
I think it may still be looking at the general module for an output, possibly door locks.

INPA does allow you to write the ISN to the EWS but this only occurs once when matching DME and EWS
There is no other re-sync options. Again possibly an early version of INPA.

Looks like I will be putting overtime with the multimeter and the spaghetti wiring.
Thanks for your help.

 

[mrscalex]

I do have a copy of INPA which I use quite a bit but I use the resync option from the other tool. I'll try and take a look but might not be for a few days until I'm round my Parent's where I do most of my Z3 stuff.

My feeling is the resync option would be the same front-end option for both EWS2 & EWS3. I've got a feeling in both tools it's called something that would be easy to dismiss believing it's not the resync.

 

[Steve C]

Well it's been over a year now since my brothers zed made a home in my garage and it is still yet to run.
Some weeks go by and it doesn't get much attention while some weekends I have a little inspiration and a few hours are lost mulling over what the problem is.
What really gets my goat is all the lovely weather missed.
Countless installs and re-installs of INPA until a usable version is able to read more modules.
Rheingold installed on a laptop but even that does not treat a late '97 vehicle with the same tests though it did give an option to align the DME & EWS which was unsuccessful despite the software saying otherwise.

The services of an auto-electrician ended with him scratching his head in bewilderment and an exit best described as 'Got to be the EWS, Good luck, Bye'
So, in desperation, a DME with EWS delete was installed without any luck but at least I should be able to concentrate elsewhere.
Whilst investigating with INPA again I managed to get into the body control module a read the error codes.
I have attached a photo of these with the hope someone will be able to decipher and advise.
Would any of these stop the vehicle from starting.
I cleared them all and only 1 came back. The top 1.....10 FT: Aggregate or short circuit to batt+

I don't want to give up on this as my brother would love to see this back on the road but soon my posts will be in the sale section for breaking for spares.

 

[mrscalex]

I would take a punt that might be a serious block to the car starting if the DME is deciding it would be unsafe to try and start the car with a significant electrical error. The cranking is controlled by the EWS at a lower level and may not have the intelligence to spot and stop it.

I would have a look at the battery blow off assembly in the first instance and make sure that’s not been compromised. That’s the gubbins in-line in the positive lead at the battery. It blows the connection to crucial electrical circuits like the fuel pump in the event of an accident. But it can malfunction.

 

[Stevo7682]

when it cranks does it have a spark and does the furl pump run ( or does it have fuel pressure at the rail )
I know this is kinda basic and obviously people have already looked at the car and that would have been looked at

 

[mrscalex]

Btw your man is talking cr*p saying it’s the EWS. Cranking is the successful output from the EWS. It could be the handshake/handoff between the EWS and DME which is what the resync is required for. But it doesn't change the fact he’s talking junk that the EWS is knackered. It’s not.

 

[Steve C]

Damn you guys are quick...
I read in some posts that the battery positive line can deteriorate and get corroded but on inspection looks clean.
Can it be tested with a meter? What readings should I look for?

when cranking there is still no fuel pump or spark.
Fuel pump can be activated via INPA and is still good.

 

[mrscalex]

I'm no auto electrician and tend to blag my way around by swapping out components until I fix it. But the battery positive lead is a challenge as the interior would have to come out - it runs front to back. But if it's got the balls to turn the starter over - the single biggest requirement in the electrical system, I don't think voltage drop from corrosion is the issue.

Crank with no fuel pump and no spark is a classic sign that the DME (engine computer) is looking at it's various inputs and saying, well the EWS is happy no one is nicking the car but I'm not happy to release the electrical aspects of running the engine.

My #1 suspect is still the rolling code alignment. It sounds like you have tried to do it but not been successful? But the electrical error code also concerns me. I'm shooting in the dark more there. But if the battery blow-off is not properly functional then it could be responsible. I tend to think on balance not as it's actually part of the SRS (seat belt) system and would be throwing an error there. But you never know. Get some mole grips and make sure the end is driven into the battery clamp properly. You'll need to remove the plastic cover to do that.

A successful rolling code alignment is 100% vital. Did you perform it with the ignition key at position II with all the dash lights on?

Have a go. But as this is a long term project I'd imagine you are not totally desperate to get it started right now. I'm usually Southampton way 2 or 3 times a year and I'm happy to swing by and have a look if needs be. No guarantees! We might even be getting Southampton season tickets this year so it might be I'm that way quite a bit!

 

[Steve C]

Hi mrscalex
I found out that my local breakers had a Zed in their yard and went for the battery lead. For the price of £4 I thought it was worth it.
Also got to find out where and how it ran to the front.
I ran it externally on the car and there was no change except that the returning error didn't occur.
Both leads, original and breakers, showed no resistance so I guess I can rule this out?

The INPA I have running does not have the option to align the DME/EWS but does allow writing of the ISN
I can only use Rheingold to align which states 'successful' each time.
I will give it another go tonight after re-re-checking all battery connections, front and back.

 

[mrscalex]

I've not used Rheingold. Have you found the option in INPA and it doesn't work? Or you can't find it? It is in there but it's well buried with a misleading name.

Have you checked all the fuses?

 

[Steve C]

Option is not available in INPA. And I've searched and searched again.
Think this is due to it being a late '97
Even Rheingold treats this car differently as when scanning, states it cannot use the standard options though does have the re-align.

Fuses and relays are checked on a regular basis. Getting quite proficient.
Unless they've hidden a few???

 

[mrscalex]

The fact neither the fuel pump or signals to spark are happening suggest too much of a coincidence and scream unhappy DME along with the fact it’s cranking.

On a 6 cylinder I think the DME partition houses a small number of additional fuses but I can’t remember without checking.

 

[mrscalex]

Some other things to consider. Crankshaft position sensor, checking cables for rodent damage and making sure the battery has enough guts. I did once read a crank no start where it turned the starter well but didn’t have anything left to energise the DME. So make sure you know you’re using a nice solid battery.

I don’t know 1.9s well so it’s limited what I can contribute.The early cars can be problematical giving full diagnostics capability. I wonder if you need a proper serial connection instead of the emulation offered by a USB lead to get to the rolling code reset.

 

[mrscalex]

Btw the early cars, possibly yours, use EWS2 not EWS3. I’m not really familiar with EWS2 but I do know it uses some form of code based handshake although more primitive.

 

[Steve C]

Definitely EWS2. I think possibly may need handshaking with the body module with regards to the lock/alarm status.
From the gumph you pm'd before, it may be looking for either a high or low signal.
What defines high/low? Haven't a clue.
Why it isn't giving the signal....boot lid loom.... door loom?
Tried to examine accessible looms for damage but some are so compact with very little room for movement.

I did try to get a proper serial connection (ADS?)with my early desktop pc but couldn't get it configured correctly.

I hopefully ruled out the battery being less than 100% by connecting up the booster pack?

BTW Thanks for your input on this, muchly appreciated. Helps to know I'm not going mad too.